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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Dead Dogs
    #4344090 - 06/27/05 06:53 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Scientists in Pittsburgh have managed to drain the blood from a dog and replace it with chilled saline. The animals at that point are dead in a medical sense. After three hours they replace the blood and administer an electric shock with a defibrillator and the Dog comes back to life. This will be used on a person within the year. This seems to have deep philosophical implications. Here is the article: Zombie Dogs


Zombie Dog


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344150 - 06/27/05 07:04 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

This is really unbelievable...very fascinating. Sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344198 - 06/27/05 07:16 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Wonderfull, sounds like something from Star Trek (being revived after hours)

But, what deep philosophical implications are you refering to?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344203 - 06/27/05 07:17 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Well, specifically life after death...do we have a soul...you know..the usual.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344205 - 06/27/05 07:18 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Yea, but what does this tells us about afterlife, soul etc?
I think nothing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344210 - 06/27/05 07:21 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

This doesn't, but would not an experiement on a human? If the person is dead then they ARE dead. There isn't an almost. So, if there is life after death the person in question should experience it...if they do not that could well mean that we are but flesh. This state is not sleep it is death. Why would this not be the last word on this matter or would it?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344229 - 06/27/05 07:27 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

oh you mean a death-o-naut?
Yea that would be interesting, but then again there are potential problems with that experiment.

Peeople who experience NDE ARE dead, their brain is not working at all, and yet some say they experice something, while others just have a standard wake up with no memory.

My guess is that the results would be the same with a 3-hour experiment too. Some would report NDE experiences, some would say they experienced nothing.

It is possible that NDE experience happens because of DMT in the last second or two before losing consciousness, but people experience them for time that seems like hours, it can be time compression, same kind that happens when we dream (you dream almost hours, yet the dream last for a few seconds in reality)

Supose that a man comes back from a 3 hour death and reports angels and light and all that stuff. It is quite possible that he experienced it in the seconds when the brain was dying, and when he woke up it felt like he was conscious for 3 hours, and tells everyone all about it.

Whatever people report when they come back after 3 hours, or a day, or a week, we will be stuck with the same old dilemas.

There are always multiple ways to explain things.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/27/05 07:29 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344234 - 06/27/05 07:29 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Wow...the photo of the dog is not a great advertisement for this procedure! Not exactly your friendly neighborhood Golden Retriever, is he?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344237 - 06/27/05 07:31 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

"Peeople who experience NDE ARE dead"
I worked as an Emergency Medicqal Technician for a good while. I was taught in training that this is not the case...they are not dead.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344246 - 06/27/05 07:35 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Well, people are taught a lot of things..

What makes them alive then? No electricity in the brain, heart is not working, nothing in the body works, so what makes them alive?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344270 - 06/27/05 07:45 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

"Well, people are taught a lot of things.."

There is brain activity in such persons. There is electrical activity in the brain of a dead person for a couple of hours, but I am told it is of a different sort. There is no heart beat or pulse in clinical death. I would be inclined to trust medical training that I recieved...it was very good in all respects. You can dispute this, but please use facts and not assumptions that I must have been told wrong.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344314 - 06/27/05 08:01 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

If there is electrical activity in the brain for a couple of hours, then what good would such a test do (3 hours dead) ?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344329 - 06/27/05 08:05 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

It is only residual electrical impulses that follows no pattern. During an NDE there is organized brain activity I am given to understanding.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344338 - 06/27/05 08:08 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Well then you have been pointed to the wrong examples.
The cases that make the whole issue are those where there is no brain activity, those are the ones you read in books about NDE


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4344351 - 06/27/05 08:10 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Anyway, even if ALL NDE experiences happen while there is still brain activity, what difference does it make how long do you leave the man dead? If he dreamed the whole NDE experience before he died, he will tell you about it even after a week of being really dead.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344416 - 06/27/05 08:39 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
This doesn't, but would not an experiement on a human? If the person is dead then they ARE dead. There isn't an almost. So, if there is life after death the person in question should experience it...if they do not that could well mean that we are but flesh. This state is not sleep it is death. Why would this not be the last word on this matter or would it?




Even if the persons "spirit" had an after death experience, there is no guarantee that he would remember it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Icelander]
    #4344509 - 06/27/05 09:11 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

"Even if the persons "spirit" had an after death experience, there is no guarantee that he would remember it."

Don't tell me that...I was already planning my next vacation...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344533 - 06/27/05 09:16 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

So that's what you meant when you said you were ready to have your life back. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4344538 - 06/27/05 09:17 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

When the dog comes back, are they violent and psychotic? Or just the same dog with the same personality?

Because they're really not zombies unless they're violent and psychotic. Not by my standards anyway...  :tongue:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Dead Dogs [Re: Veritas]
    #4344547 - 06/27/05 09:18 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Wow...the photo of the dog is not a great advertisement for this procedure!  Not exactly your friendly neighborhood Golden Retriever, is he?




How would you feel it they told you they were going to drain your blood and replace it with fucking salt? :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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