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pcubmycol
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DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE!
#4340451 - 06/26/05 08:55 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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So if your using PF tek everyone knows that the dunk n roll is the way to go.. I read around the forums and everyone suggests to put the cake in the fridge while dunking... Well this post is to remind everyone that COLD SHOCKING IS NOT BENEFICIAL TO PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It can actually delay pinning in many cube strains. The optimal temp trigger for fruiting cubensis is a drop of between 10 and 12 degrees F. A fridge is about 35-45 degrees f. 86-35=51..... This temp would only be benficial for wood loving fungi. So unless you're growing B+ or a non-cube strain, dont put your dunk in the fridge, just put it in a dark closet...
Have fun!
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Edited by pcubmycol (06/26/05 09:14 PM)
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GNIOM1498
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4340635 - 06/26/05 09:45 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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ya but if ur house is like 85 when you want to fruit then u have no choice but to put it in the fridge you need some temperature drop. I have never really noticed a difference between cold shocking and not cold shocking.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: GNIOM1498]
#4340660 - 06/26/05 09:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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IME, pinning usually is delayed by at least 2 days when dunked in the fridge in direct comparison to how long it takes for pinning for a cake dunked out of the fridge (in the same temp the terrarium is).
IME Dunked in fridge: 6-8days until pinning
Dunked out of fridge: 2-4 days until pinning
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divinityinfinity
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4340715 - 06/26/05 10:06 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i dunked my cakes in the fridge and they pin almost immediatley...just an observation
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prefloppro
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I do also, pins in two days max. I do it because my incubation temps are only high 70's. My first time i did not put in the refridge and it took almost 7 days before i saw pins. Results may and will vary with different setups, how cold your fridge gets, and a host of other factors.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: prefloppro]
#4342551 - 06/27/05 10:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, i mainly use KS as my strain of choice. It hates the cold shock, and so does my personal strain "Jade." Ive just always found it better not to cold shock, some do, some dont i guess. I just notice that everyone talks about dunking, they say to put your dunk in the fridge. Why dont we start telling the newbies to experiment with both to see which works better for them.
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lardnar
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4342585 - 06/27/05 10:55 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I will put half of mine in the fridge and half in the basement back rooms ( 65 degrees )
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scatmanrav
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4342596 - 06/27/05 10:58 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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The reason your supposed to dunk in the fridge, is to stop contams from germinating. The water you soak your cakes in will gain some nutes from the BRF, if you leave it sitting out in 85 degree weather for 24 hours, thats prime oportunity for a contam to start up in the water and threaten the cake. Its not a huge risk doing it out of the fridge, but thats why alot of people who dunk cakes do so in the fridge, not for the cold shock aspect. I also think a more colonized jar is more apt to pin, so not needing a cold shock, its older and stopped veg growth. Cold shcoking either way shouldnt be done to induce pinning, just stop the veg cycle. If the veg cycle is already stopped then itll slow things down, if not, it can speed things up.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: scatmanrav]
#4342643 - 06/27/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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thanks scatman... good info.
Ive also heard of dunking in a 3% h2o2 solution but never tried it. In all my experience growing though, ive only had 2 run ins with contams (in the past 3 years, before that i wasnt very good at keeping things sterile) One on a cake during its 4th flush, and the other on a rye casing after the second flush. So i guess this is why im less inclined to worry about contams when im dunking.
KS has such a strong mycelial network that i think dunking in the fridge is unnessesary. I also use sterile water to dunk in though, some people just take short cuts and fill up a jar with tap water and stick the cake in.
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thremix
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4342887 - 06/27/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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well can you just dunk in 100%, 3% h2o2? in a tub I read Amazonian likes cold shock. Can any one tell me if it is true? I know OFF topic question just wan to know.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: thremix]
#4342896 - 06/27/05 12:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have heard that Amazonian likes a cold shock as well, not sure on the facts though, i have just read that a few times.
h2o2 is already 3%. So i believe you would dunk in 3% h202 solution, 97% natural spring water.
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agar
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4343042 - 06/27/05 12:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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No cubes like cold shocks.
Cold shocking is way over rated. If everything was done within a range that works, a 5 or 7 degree temp drop, fresh air exchange & a decent light cycle ......and they should fruit like gangbusters.
Where in nature, where cubes fruit naturally, do you see anything like a temp drop that a refrigerator provides (you don't).
Lousy genetics from going out far to many generations of G2G, or overheating spawn or substrate while incubating is what damages the fruiting mechanism of cubes.
That is why some don't pin or fruit - well.
Cold shocking isnt going to cure those defects.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: agar]
#4343066 - 06/27/05 12:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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THANKYOU AGAR!
Finally got a big dog in here who agrees.
One question though, would cold shocking benefit B+? I know that cold shocking is only beneficial to wood loving fungi. B+ can grow on wood because of its relation with azures. When it is growing on a pf cake though, would it take on all of its cube like genetics and not benefit?
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Roadkill
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4343092 - 06/27/05 12:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't agree...
I have always cold shocked cakes in the frig...while dunking.
and I usually have them fruiting in 4 days after the cold shock.
I have probably done more cakes than...anyone in this thread.
and if my memory isn't too far gone...agar has never done cakes.
cakes are different than casings and bulk grows...I don't cold shock my casings and bulk grows.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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agar
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: Roadkill]
#4343138 - 06/27/05 01:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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True, I am no cake guy. So, there may be a differance.
But, why would there be?
It's still a cube & substrate is substrate.
I understand dunking = rehydration.
Has anyone done cakes, same strain, same sub, same grow enviroments. Then cold shocked half the cakes & not the other half to see what the differance might be?
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: agar]
#4343181 - 06/27/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes... i posted the results above...
IME Dunked in fridge: 6-8days until pinning
Dunked out of fridge: 2-4 days until pinning
This is with KS
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Roadkill
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: agar]
#4343187 - 06/27/05 01:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have done this...experiment.
6 South American cakes...dunked and in the frig for a cold shock.
6 South American cakes...just dunked...no cold shock in the frig.
6 South American cakes...no dunk...put in the frig for a cold shock.
6 South American cakes...no dunk...put straight into the fruiting chamber.
all the cakes were labeled and put into the same fruiting chamber...with the same growing conditions.
----
Guess which ones fruited first...
The ones that were dunked and cold shocked!~
I will say that other strains might not like being cold shocked.
but I have played around with cakes for years...and most do...IME.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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WillieTomg
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: agar]
#4343189 - 06/27/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Funny story: I have 4 cakes dunking in the fridge right now! I was planning on doing more when they finished, but just for kicks I could try dunking them outside the fridge for the purposes of scientific inquiry. Then, I'll just keep an eye on which ones were dunked where, and compare the results (I've been keeping pretty detailed lab notes anyway).
Unless if someone knows the answer off the top of their head anyway, of course...
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: WillieTomg]
#4343237 - 06/27/05 01:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
and I usually have them fruiting in 4 days after the cold shock.
Ditto.
Mine do better when I don't cold shock.
I can't get these shiitake to fruit, but Cubes
Never needed such a huge drop in temp. - EVER.
Tc bro
-Gnostic
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Hotnuts
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4343486 - 06/27/05 02:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't neccesserily think that the cold shock itself is the aid in fruiting, as is the evaporation that happens from the warm up after the cold shock. Just recently I put 3 tubs outside because of fruiting problems. It got down to 50 or so at night and during the day around 80. Damn if it didn't work or help. I have a hard time believing that a cold shock helps a tropical species switch into fruiting gear, but I know for a fact that evaporation helps to induce pinning for cakes and tubs.
Edited by hotnutz (06/27/05 02:39 PM)
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: Hotnuts]
#4343500 - 06/27/05 02:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanx for the info everyone. It looks as if everyone is split on this topic... even the big dogs. So the best thing to do when dunking id say, is do that experiment that I did, and that RK did. dunk all your cakes, cold shock half, and see what works best for you with each specific strain you do. Then post a reply to let us know your results and make sure to include the strain you're using.
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Hotnuts
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4343511 - 06/27/05 02:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Honestly, you should always dunk your cakes in the fridge. This helps to slow down bacteria while dunking.
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thremix
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: Hotnuts]
#4343534 - 06/27/05 02:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do you dunk a myco bag?
-------------------- http://www.gainesvilleps.org/ _____________________________________ Dale Carnegie, once said that he never needed to know any thing about any thing because he knew EVERY thing. Any time he didn't know some thing, he asked, he asked his team, his friends, And most important he asked the person that would know the answer.
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: Hotnuts]
#4343641 - 06/27/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hotnutz said: Honestly, you should always dunk your cakes in the fridge. This helps to slow down bacteria while dunking.
why not just dunk with a 3% h202 solution then? Why slow pinning instead?
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prefloppro
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4343702 - 06/27/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pcubmycol said:
Quote:
hotnutz said: Honestly, you should always dunk your cakes in the fridge. This helps to slow down bacteria while dunking.
why not just dunk with a 3% h202 solution then? Why slow pinning instead?
Again that is your opinion, there good reasons for both.
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: prefloppro]
#4343743 - 06/27/05 03:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
as is the evaporation that happens from the warm up after the cold shock
Cold shocks have nothing to do with water
It's about dropping the temp. to help ionitiate pinning...
-Gnostic
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: prefloppro]
#4343754 - 06/27/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
prefloppro said:
Quote:
pcubmycol said:
Quote:
hotnutz said: Honestly, you should always dunk your cakes in the fridge. This helps to slow down bacteria while dunking.
why not just dunk with a 3% h202 solution then? Why slow pinning instead?
Again that is your opinion, there good reasons for both.
i agree... i should've added the "IMO"
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scatmanrav
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4343941 - 06/27/05 04:15 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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>One question though, would cold shocking benefit B+? I know that cold shocking is only beneficial to wood loving fungi. B+ can grow on wood because of its relation with azures.
What is all this crap marketing you've heard? B+ is no more related to Azures then any other cubie. It can no more grow on wood then any other cubie. ASFIK, cubies will colonize wood, but not fruit well from it. They certainly arent Azure relatives or wood loving, or cold loving (which is why you shcok ps cyans and azures, not because they're wood loving, but because theyre cold loving). I'd be carful with a vendor if it was one that told me something like that..
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: scatmanrav]
#4343990 - 06/27/05 04:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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ive read in a few different places that you can grow B+ in the same way you would grow azures. A friend of mine showed me a picture somewhere of some B+ fruiting outside while it was snowing, so i believed it to be true.
after searching around, i cannot find this pic or the info again... therefore, im the ass on this one.
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Edited by pcubmycol (06/27/05 04:27 PM)
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scatmanrav
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4344000 - 06/27/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well confusion happens, I thought it was some website trying to sell B+ as azures or something, didnt want you thinking that. Like the whole Blue Meanies thing (used to be Cope Cyans, now a cubie BM exists too, marketting gimick).
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: scatmanrav]
#4344021 - 06/27/05 04:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
scatmanrav said: Well confusion happens, I thought it was some website trying to sell B+ as azures or something, didnt want you thinking that. Like the whole Blue Meanies thing (used to be Cope Cyans, now a cubie BM exists too, marketting gimick).
ya that BM thing pisses me off. but no, it wasnt from a vendor, probably just some bad info circulating around on some forums somewhere. Unless you really can grow B+ like azures, but now that i think about it, i doubt it.
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Shiin
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4344268 - 06/27/05 05:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cold Shocking is defintley the way to go, not just by my own expierience , but many many other peoples, idn how much of a benefit it is but 98% of the time it helps, thnks roadkill for providing hard facts on this earlier in the thread. Because this debate comes up like every month or 2. lol LataZ
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Magash
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: pcubmycol]
#4344898 - 06/27/05 08:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I just saw this thread and have seen this stuff posted many times. Myself I tend to think it may be strain related. I did do a little test a while back with South American and Puerto Ricans as the test strains.
90 brf cakes were done up with 45 in the fridge and 45 not. Almost everyone of the fridge cakes beat the ones not in the fridge by two days. At this point who cares about two days but when your new two days seems like two years.
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divinityinfinity
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: agar]
#4350233 - 06/29/05 11:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
AGAR = No cubes like cold shocks.
Cold shocking is way over rated. If everything was done within a range that works, a 5 or 7 degree temp drop, fresh air exchange & a decent light cycle ......and they should fruit like gangbusters.
Where in nature, where cubes fruit naturally, do you see anything like a temp drop that a refrigerator provides (you don't).
Lousy genetics from going out far to many generations of G2G, or overheating spawn or substrate while incubating is what damages the fruiting mechanism of cubes.
That is why some don't pin or fruit - well.
Cold shocking isnt going to cure those defects.
yeah, however, it seems that we do a lot of stuff to mushrooms here that wouldnt happen naturally to speed up and increase the process.
Do you think mushrooms grow in nature in completely sterile conditions free of bacteria, mold, or other organisms ; kept at a constant temp of 82 degrees with 100% humidity in plastic and glass contraptions sprayed with Lysol?
no, but its been found that doing these things increases the speed and yeild of the growth. Cold shocking might not happen in nature, but it very well could be an adaptation thats been found to work
Edited by divinityinfinity (06/29/05 11:13 AM)
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CLUTCH
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Quote:
divinityinfinity said: yeah, however, it seems that we do a lot of stuff to mushrooms here that wouldnt happen naturally to speed up and increase the process.
Do you think mushrooms grow in nature in completely sterile conditions free of bacteria, mold, or other organisms ; kept at a constant temp of 82 degrees with 100% humidity in plastic and glass contraptions sprayed with Lysol?
no, but its been found that doing these things increases the speed and yeild of the growth. Cold shocking might not happen in nature, but it very well could be an adaptation thats been found to work
Good Point
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: CLUTCH]
#4350260 - 06/29/05 11:22 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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You've got to be kidding me.....
Outdoors grow faster and if grown synthetically, maybe more potent, but that's about it.
Cubes don't like to be cold shocked.
Ever found a cube in NC or a cooler state?
Not really, you typically find AZURES, and other Cold Loving fungi.....
Good luck with cold shocking your P.Cube cakes.
LAGLAGLAGLAGLAGLAGLAG...
How is it that this question comes up about every week and debated so hardcore?...
-Gnostic
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divinityinfinity
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4350285 - 06/29/05 11:30 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
IGnosticAbhorI said: You've got to be kidding me.....
Outdoors grow faster and if grown synthetically, maybe more potent, but that's about it.
Cubes don't like to be cold shocked.
Ever found a cube in NC or a cooler state?
Not really, you typically find AZURES, and other Cold Loving fungi.....
Good luck with cold shocking your P.Cube cakes.
LAGLAGLAGLAGLAGLAGLAG...
How is it that this question comes up about every week and debated so hardcore?...
-Gnostic
well then why do people do it?
if something is completely without merit, if it does not work at all, my guess is that people would not bother doing it. For some people its been shown to work.
I think its completely feasible that some strains would like to be shocked and others wouldnt. Yeah they are the same genus but they grow all over the world so it makes complete sense they would like (or not dislike) different growing conditions. Pine trees are all of the same genus but some can survive and thrive on colder temps than others.
Im just saying that if it absolutley doesnt work, i dont think anyone would do it.
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4350290 - 06/29/05 11:30 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've placed old cakes, CONTAM-ed cake, and new cakes in the yard all the time.
They ALWAYS fruit FASTER, Plus, mold somehow just Disappears, and the whole wind factor is def. a big part.
Ok, I'm done, Trying to get a point across w/o sounding like an asshole
Good luck w/ the cold shocks.
Take this in adv. cult..
-Gnostic
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4350304 - 06/29/05 11:34 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
well then why do people do it?
1.)Your house, Harbors Way more germs,mold, and bacteria than outdoors. So one must do what he/she can do...to keep it more like the outdoor. Believe it or not, but MOST peoples houses aren't as "clean" as outside. Much dust and such just collects.
2.)Cold shock...Because they say(statments ect ect) to drop the degress by about 7-10F and most people can't get that for whatever reasons......So they just stick it in the fridge...Then someone comes along and says how great it works when they had NO CONTROL, they don't know the First thing about experimenting and try to prove it. Just b/c you do something once w/o a control, doesn't make it Fact.
.....
-Gnostic
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scatmanrav
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Quote:
divinityinfinity said: well then why do people do it?
Im just saying that if it absolutley doesnt work, i dont think anyone would do it.
As I said in like the fifth post:
"The reason your supposed to dunk in the fridge, is to stop contams from germinating. The water you soak your cakes in will gain some nutes from the BRF, if you leave it sitting out in 85 degree weather for 24 hours, thats prime oportunity for a contam to start up in the water and threaten the cake. Its not a huge risk doing it out of the fridge, but thats why alot of people who dunk cakes do so in the fridge, not for the cold shock aspect."
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: scatmanrav]
#4350351 - 06/29/05 11:40 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Its not a huge risk doing it out of the fridge, but thats why alot of people who dunk cakes do so in the fridge
I've never had a problem with letting it sit in 80F weather. But my conditions/factors are different i'm sure.
But yea, That would make sense. But I've had cakes delay (from past experiences and experiments), so I take that tiny risk.
Spring water hasnt done me wrong yet
-Gnostic
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divinityinfinity
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: scatmanrav]
#4350355 - 06/29/05 11:41 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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not that im questioning your sources or knowhow AT ALL but im going to try to research this on mycology sites. I believe what you're saying its just interesting the variability in people's results
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pcubmycol
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Re: DONT PUT YOUR DUNK IN THE FRIDGE! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4350677 - 06/29/05 01:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
IGnosticAbhorI said: I've never had a problem with letting it sit in 80F weather. But my conditions/factors are different i'm sure.
But yea, That would make sense. But I've had cakes delay (from past experiences and experiments), so I take that tiny risk.
Spring water hasnt done me wrong yet
-Gnostic
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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