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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 7,867
start your own country...
    #4338870 - 06/26/05 12:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

the setting:
you have an island in the caribbean ocean. it is about the size of puerto rico. it has forrests, 90% beaches, a small mountain range, and fresh water. 50% of the land is farmable. there are no native peoples. this is an uninhabited island at this point.

the rules:
rule #1: you are an outside observer meaning you may set it up and watch from afar, but not interact once the country is set up.
rule #2: no war machine. this is a study in economics and law. no nukes, WMD, etc

the questions:
What form of government (if any) would you start with?
what would the monetar system (if andy) be based in?
would there be a "constitution" of sorts? What would the "constitution" include?
what laws (if any) would there be?

feel free to elaborate and expand upon my questions. i am curious as to how you guys would start a country from scratch.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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OfflineSycronica
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4339057 - 06/26/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I'd like to see some kind of crossbreed between democracy and communism. Let the people vote on how to divide the work and split up the wealth equally. Must be strict rules in place to prevent hijacking though. A couple times a month have voting days where the most important issues are decided upon by the masses. Bring the people directly into the governing process instead of just choosing leaders and hope they have your best interests at heart.

I would like to see mom and pop stores. The rest could be entirely ran by the people's govt. Only corperations I would allow would be of free information. No one person should be greedy enough to want to be richer than the rest. If the wealth was divided equally and everyone had access to the same goods and same quality of life then hopefully that would reduce jealousy and envy.

Education 100% free. How bout a public tv channel for every college professor. Laws? hmm one law would suffice in my hypethetical island; If you are harming no one else, do as you will. Would like to drill that into the brain of every single citizen b4 they knew their own name.

Despite my best intentions though, some bad asses would surely come and conquer us  :lol:

Oh yeah, one real important law I forgot; NO F00KING L00P HOLES ALLOWED!


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


Edited by Sycronica (06/26/05 01:49 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4339143 - 06/26/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking about this, and it's somewhat funny b/c my island would go against my current political beliefs.

I would probably bring over a large portion of my friends and whatever family wanted to be there.

I would make it sort of a commune largely based on small-scale subsistence agriculture. Those who were not fit for intensive labor could spend their working hours rationing the crops or producing goods for the community.

I would also bring over a group of professors who would be skilled across all fields. I'm sure I'd have no problem finding a group of liberal profs for whom this would be paradise.

Laws would go much like Syncronica's. As long as you're not infringing on other's rights, you're fine.


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 7,867
Re: start your own country... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4339698 - 06/26/05 06:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

what happens to that system in a few hundred years when population gets huge? this question is directed to both previous replies.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Registered: 10/18/04
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Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4339841 - 06/26/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

it doesnt matter what you would build because sooner or later the US government would take it over.


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In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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OfflineSycronica
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Registered: 06/15/05
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Re: start your own country... [Re: lemon_lw]
    #4345893 - 06/28/05 04:21 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

what happens to that system in a few hundred years when population gets huge?




Well that is too hard to say really. Way too many variables. Either spread out or end up like easter island heh. If my version of govt became corrupt it could possibly end up like stallin russia, especially if one man or a small group gained total control.

Of course i would want a constitution to protect that but we know what happens to those over time lol.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: start your own country... [Re: Sycronica]
    #4345971 - 06/28/05 05:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If my version of govt became corrupt it could possibly end up like stallin russia, especially if one man or a small group gained total control.





And therein lies one of the biggest problems with Communism/Socialism and other governments where the people in power are given a lot of control, trust and faith. :smirk:


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4345988 - 06/28/05 05:32 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

To be honest, it would be pretty similar to the constitution we have now in America. Small changes would be:

1) Formally giving an independent government body review powers to ensure that any law passed by the legislative body is in strict accordance with the Constitution, otherwise vetoing it. (this would be slightly different from judicial review in that it is official and it does not need to wait for a case to be brought)

2) To enable the above committee, removing the vague clause from the Constitution about congress having the power to 'promote the general welfare.'

3) Give congress the power to dispense need-based vouchers for food, medical care, child education.

4) Give congress the power to pay monetary dispensation when it fails in its task to protect citizens from theft due to force or fraud (i.e. insurance money).

5) Have something in the bill of rights disallowing legislation against crimes in which the victim of the crime is a willing participant.

6) Enabling proportional representation with a minimum of 3-5% to be eligible.

7) Removing the electoral college (the senate seat bonus for small states is enough IMHO)

8) This one I don't really know how to set up, but I think the government should have something like BBC news. BBC news is great in that its content is not as much swayed to attract advertising dollars, but instead to dispense information. What I don't understand is how they have avoided the BBC becoming simply a mouthpiece manufacturing consent for the government. That is quite impressive.

9) This is the other part where I am unsure how to do bring it about. In fact I plan on making a thread about it. It would be some sort of law in the spirit of Plato's Republic, removing material temptation from politicians. Campaign finance reform seems not to be too successful. Perhaps public financing of campaigns? I'm not quite sure. The libertarian answer is to remove money decisions from the hands of politicians, but this seems inevitable, at least as far as the military industrial complex. And anti-trust law, which I see as necessary, would inevitably put monetary decisions in the hands of poliitcians as well. I just don't know the best way to solve it. Suggestions?


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineMolokoMilkPlus
Theorist

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 185
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4346117 - 06/28/05 08:26 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Fun thread... reminds of the computer game Tropico, where you run a small Caribbean country.. in the game you run a country, either aligned with American capitalism or Soviet communism. Each allegiance has its own pros and cons. If your people get pissed off at how you are running the country (martial law really gets them riled up), an insurgency will form that you now have to quash. Sometimes they can be kept at bay through political process (changing your policies to ease tensions) or they can be fought with your military/police/security forces. It's game over if the guerrilas successfully take over your presidential palace, and the El Presidente is shown fleeing the island nation in exile with a bunch of brief cases filled with cash. It's a fun game, and the demo is available online except it is limited. You come to power in the 1950's but by the 1990's your country usually falls victim to warfare.

How would I run an island nation? I would establish a highly Libertarian constitution. Government wise it would be highly libertine socialism with the intention of gradual privatization as the new nation gains more stability. This is what I would do out of good conscience, but most people would likely rule the country as a dictatorship. Really, for a politician that's the ultimate fruit of earth; complete power of your ideology over others.


--------------------
Got Milk?


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4346377 - 06/28/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Name - Isola Bella di Intolleranza
Population maximum would be 500,000(~50 people per square mile).
No money, just bartering.
Two children max per couple. If you decide to have a child, then it must be done between the ages of 23 and 35. Once your child reaches the age of 25 you have to die or leave the country permenantly.
No alliances with foreign countries. Anyone that steps foot onto the land is to be taken in if population limit allows. If not, they are to be killed.
Rum is the national drink, and made by every citizen.
Marijuana is the national plant and is to be grown in several designated plots throughout the country.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: start your own country... [Re: automan]
    #4346658 - 06/28/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I'd be the only person there. Then it doesn't matter.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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