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 Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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 Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification  [Re: scatmanrav]
#4419689 - 07/18/05 03:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yup,this and some optimisation! Temperature for example could be critical since for solids the solubility of them is correlated to the temperature of the solution: Lower temperatures ,lower solubility (thats why you will notice solubility data for certain TEMPERATURES in Meck index and thats why salt,sugar and the rest dissolve more readily in HOT water!)
Now,i dont know the solubility of calcium hydrohide in water (such a base should be readily soluble,but dont quote me on it) ,it could be unearthly big but one could note this: If your solution is saturated in room temperature ,when you try to cool it down in order to use it in this experiment you will notice some percipitation of CaOH.So a good idea would be the salked lime to be saturated at the temperature you are going to work with it so you get no false alarms from CaOH percipitating.
People in this thread have told that it is readily available in stores, if im thinkin g of the same material it is also available at construction sites you know,its the supernatant liquid in those bags with the white plaster like stuff (i dont know how you call it). Be carefull though with it ,i dont know how strong of a base it is i have heard though of people falling in pits of that thing getting some burns...Hmm,am i speaking of the same stuff?
By the way, why would psilocybin react with this to form a "salt"?Is it because the molecules is a zwiterrion?
EDIT: Apparently in 1 litre of pure water in ROOM TEMPERATURE one can disolve a gram of Calcium Hydroxide. http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/group2/solubility.html
Edited by Psiloman (07/18/05 05:15 PM)
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Juan_del_Pueblo
Mr.Papashroom
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 585
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Psiloman]
#4423626 - 07/19/05 01:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've spent over 2000g's on X-traction BS, only to have this fruit rollup crap. If there was more details I'm sure I could find another 2k all in the name of science.
If U could type up a list of detailed procedures we could all pick one and write back the resultz. This way we conserve some of the Fmatter. It sux when some one says "yeah I tried that and it didn't work" It's good to know whats been tried already, Just my .02....
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Don't I look like I'm serious...
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 Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Asante]
#4427218 - 07/20/05 06:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
JUNGLE EXTRACTION OF PSILOCYBIN
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1...Freeze Psilocybin mushrooms (preferably P.Cubensis)
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2...Thaw and strain to collect all the juice you can get
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3...Add a solution of slaked lime in water (Calcium hydroxide)
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4...Crude Calcium psilocybate precipitates (estimated 1-2gr 50% product per kilo of fresh mushrooms)
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5...Filter off and dry the crude Calcium psilocybate
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It is key to not use too much lime and not too little, this needs to be tweaked but I think a teaspoonfull will suffice.
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It will take other calcium salts out of solution with it but these are nontoxic, think of the calcium salts of fatty acids and anorganic salts.
Oook, to get clearer still: an amount of Calcium hydroxide you can start with would be 1/8 oz (3-4gr)
Psiloman is right: the freezing method is a convenient way to seperate the juice from the solids. You need the juice, undiluted.
Basically you wet the calcium hydroxide with some water and stir it into a thin putty, then stir this through the mushroom juice for lessay 10 minutes. After this the undissolved powder will have increased in weight and part of this weight is Calcium psilocybate. You then use a fine filter to separate the solids from the juice, for instance a soft kind of paper like newspaper (perhaps printer paper) tends to be a very good (but slow) filter, but likely the paper used to filter coffee or teabag tissue will suffice and is preferable if this is so. The wet powder can then be dried at room temperature in the shade.
METHOD v0.1
1...Freeze 1 kilo Psilocybin mushrooms (preferably P.Cubensis)
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2...Thaw and strain to collect all the juice you can get
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3...add 3-4gr slaked lime in a bit of water (Calcium hydroxide) and stir for 10 minutes
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4...Crude Calcium psilocybate becomes part of the insoluble powder (estimated 1-2gr 50% product per kilo of fresh mushrooms)
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5...Filter off and dry the crude Calcium psilocybate
you could go for 100 fresh grams and do the reaction in a cup with a teaspoon but on even smaller scales you'll get very little precipitate.
I'd say 40gr fresh mushrooms + 100mg slaked lime is about as low as you can go. The resultant powder ought to contain the power of those 40 fresh grams, perhaps the power of 30 fresh grams in the real world. If you're used to tripping on 1/8oz you can then weigh this powder (its science, remember?) mix the whole powder well with half a glass of fruit juice (the fruit acids are guaranteed to neutralize any alkalinity that may remain) and slosh it down the hatch.
You can then estimate whether it is active and how active it is. Remember that the comeup may be slower or faster than with chewed mushrooms. Take note how long it takes to come up, how strong the effect, if any, is and how long it lasts.
Quote:
METHOD v0.1 (1/8oz scale)
.
-40gr mushrooms
-freeze/thaw into juice & filter
-add 0.1gr calcium hydroxide to the juice
-stir for ten minutes
-filter the powder from the juice (try to get it all)
-dry the powder
-weigh the powder
-stir the powder through half a glass of juice
-ingest
-record how long it takes to comeup
-record how long it lasts
-guesstimate how much dried/fresh grams it feels like
.
Variations to the technique:
-using a juicer or other means to turn mushrtooms into juice fast (juice is unstable)
-wetting dried mushroom powder with water 1:10 instead of fresh shrooms.
Please remember that the spirit of this is that of innovation. We don't have a readymade tek but are trying to create a tek that has the potential to make psilocybin isolation easy as pie.
No solvents, difficult procedures or "chemicals" needed but simply treating mushroom juice with slaked lime to concentrate the psilocybin from 100 parts of unstable wet mushrooms to perhaps 0.5 parts of storage stable powder. Isn't that a goal worth experimenting for?
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (07/20/05 06:28 AM)
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Mindzpore
Psychedelicious
Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 319
Loc: Reject the concept of loc...
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Asante]
#4427833 - 07/20/05 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i have a few questions.
considering how concentrated this 4-cp is going to be one or two kgs is just going to yeild a very small amount, dont you think its a risk that a big part of the relultant 4-cp is going to get lost in the filter?
also once ingested and the 4-HO-DMT has been separated, the CaHPO4 remains. what is that and how does that affect the body?
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Mindzpores words of wisdom:
"If you think something is foolproof, you just haven't met proper fools".
Wiccan_Seeker said:
"It is better to adjust to become a better listener than to keep on cranking up the volume".
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Mindzpore
Psychedelicious
Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 319
Loc: Reject the concept of loc...
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Mindzpore]
#4427870 - 07/20/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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oh, i found some info on the CaHPO4.
Appearance: Fine, white powder.
Odor: Odorless.
Solubility: Practically insoluble in water.
Density: 2.3
Boiling Point: Decomposes.
Melting Point: Decomposes at red heat.
Inhalation:May cause irritation to the respiratory tract. Symptoms may include coughing and shortness of breath.
Ingestion:Not expected to be a health hazard via ingestion.
Skin Contact:Not expected to be a health hazard from skin exposure.
Eye Contact:May cause irritation, redness and pain.
NFPA Ratings: Health: 0 Flammability: 0 Reactivity: 0
Label Hazard Warning: CAUTION! MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT.
Label Precautions: Avoid contact with eyes, skin and clothing.
Wash thoroughly after handling.
Avoid breathing dust.
Keep container closed.
Use only with adequate ventilation.
Label First Aid: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. Get medical attention for any breathing difficulty. In case of contact, immediately flush eyes or skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Get medical attention if irritation develops or persists.
Product Use: Laboratory Reagent.
it seems harmless.
--------------------
Mindzpores words of wisdom:
"If you think something is foolproof, you just haven't met proper fools".
Wiccan_Seeker said:
"It is better to adjust to become a better listener than to keep on cranking up the volume".
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beyondsisxth
Title?
Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 232
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Mindzpore]
#4428166 - 07/20/05 12:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cool, so as long as we aren't snorting this fun stuff we're good.
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The sun was pulling cheap shots doing commercial body tricks, Behind the back, Under the leg, I think he even did a headspin, On a crossfader that sounded whack, But looked excellent, All of the sudden it gets dim, The crater face steps in, Puts mexican drumbreaks on the Technics, He's like "Let's begin", He conducted an orchestra so dope the sun started sweatin' him, I guess he'd expected to win on pure artistic merit, Composing complex plays with nothin but soundbytes, Burned out the lights, Made MCs too self conscious quit the master mics, For a thousand nights, It continued without a single slip up, Except once the record skipped, But it kinda sounded cool.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: 
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: beyondsisxth]
#4428366 - 07/20/05 12:54 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Interesting...it is ALMOST something worth going for...but its like getting Salvornum crystals...do I really need that mush potency? LOL It would be difficult to not take to much....someday this will probably be worked out. I wish I had some material I could waste right now..
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lardnar
Pu Pu Platter
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 703
Loc: Behind what appears
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: beyondsisxth]
#4428477 - 07/20/05 01:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
beyondsisxth said:
Cool, so as long as we aren't snorting this fun stuff we're good.
But its so fuuuuuuun! 
what do you think the volume of the product from 1 kilo of wet shrooms would be? And how can I give this to the president? 
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If your soul is sence this life is lost ...
Edited by lardnar (07/20/05 01:15 PM)
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London 
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: lardnar]
#4428826 - 07/20/05 02:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
lardnar said: how can I give this to the president?
tell him it's a health shake endorsed by the christian gun club
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buh
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beyondsisxth
Title?
Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 232
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: lardnar]
#4428917 - 07/20/05 03:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tell him his steak needs a little salt, lend him your shaker.
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The sun was pulling cheap shots doing commercial body tricks, Behind the back, Under the leg, I think he even did a headspin, On a crossfader that sounded whack, But looked excellent, All of the sudden it gets dim, The crater face steps in, Puts mexican drumbreaks on the Technics, He's like "Let's begin", He conducted an orchestra so dope the sun started sweatin' him, I guess he'd expected to win on pure artistic merit, Composing complex plays with nothin but soundbytes, Burned out the lights, Made MCs too self conscious quit the master mics, For a thousand nights, It continued without a single slip up, Except once the record skipped, But it kinda sounded cool.
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l0k1
Stranger
Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 2
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: beyondsisxth]
#4430608 - 07/20/05 09:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i think that the calcium hydroxide is not alkaline enough to hydrolyse the phosphoryl ester (psilocybin). If i were to suggest what might make this method work it is to first basify the juice strongly with NaOH (pH 13.5-14) neutralise it, and then add the calcium hydroxide to it, best would be as a premade, hot solution of concentrated lime water.
One would first basify with strong NaOH solution (4tsp/L) and then would over-acidify with some acid, HCl or phosphoric perhaps, and then first use sodium carbonate, ground up dry, added slowly with stirring until fizzing stops, then add the calcium hydroxide solution
Edited by l0k1 (07/20/05 09:53 PM)
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Juan_del_Pueblo
Mr.Papashroom
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 585
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: l0k1]
#4430929 - 07/20/05 10:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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METHOD v0.1 (1/8oz scale)
.
-40gr mushrooms
-freeze/thaw into juice & filter
-add 0.1gr calcium hydroxide to the juice
-stir for ten minutes
-filter the powder from the juice (try to get it all)
-dry the powder
-weigh the powder
-stir the powder through half a glass of juice
-ingest
-record how long it takes to comeup
-record how long it lasts
-guesstimate how much dried/fresh grams it feels like
.
Variations to the technique:
-using a juicer or other means to turn mushrtooms into juice fast (juice is unstable)
-wetting dried mushroom powder with water 1:10 instead of fresh shrooms.
My friend will let me know how it goes by Sun. I know the Shrooms are frozen and will be thaw'd tomorrow. Any input at this time would be greatly appreciated...
--------------------
Don't I look like I'm serious...
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: l0k1]
#4432005 - 07/21/05 02:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
l0k1 said:
i think that the calcium hydroxide is not alkaline enough to hydrolyse the phosphoryl ester (psilocybin).
We're not trying to hydrolyze that ester, we're attempting to form an insoluble salt between a Ca(2+) ion and the two remaining acidic oxygens of the phosphoryl group of the psilocybin molecule.
Quote:
If i were to suggest what might make this method work it is to first basify the juice strongly with NaOH (pH 13.5-14)
A pH that high is almost certain to destroy the psilocybin (destroy--not merely convert it to psilocin). Besides, this is supposed to be a jungle extraction, which means no pH measurements, no "complicated" chemistry--just blend, mix, pour. Like making a smoothie.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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 Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Juan_del_Pueblo]
#4432008 - 07/21/05 02:43 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Now we're getting somewhere! 
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tak
geo's henchman
Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: ChuangTzu]
#4434833 - 07/21/05 05:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I dont even understand what the freezing and thawing is doing? Anyone care to put this in idiot terms just so i can follow the thread?
Fresh musrooms are frozen right?
Then Thawed?
Where is the juice coming from? Squeeze?
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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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xburn
V card
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 707
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: tak]
#4435038 - 07/21/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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when it frezzes the water expands breaking all the cell vacuoles. Then when thawed it all drips out. Thats assuming fungus have water vacules... id ropped my bio class before we got to fungus but i hang out here so i know more than most of those kids anyways : P
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Check out the official MushroomWiki at http://www.mushroomwiki.com. Stop by and contribute.
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Juan_del_Pueblo
Mr.Papashroom
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 585
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: xburn]
#4435094 - 07/21/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I made sure the RH was @ 100%, so the mushies would be plenty hydrated. Do you think the thaw'd mushies matter(MM) might be too thick to pass thru the coffee filter? Should I tell him to save the remains of the MM? Should he dilute the MM so it can pass thru the filter easier? What type of filter or is a coffee filter ok?
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Don't I look like I'm serious...
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Christoph teh goat luvr
Drugstore Cowboy
Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 1,261
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Juan_del_Pueblo]
#4435429 - 07/21/05 08:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, this is exciting. Can't wait to see if someone can pull it off!
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liveby
Wasted For Time
Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 1,511
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: Christoph teh goat luvr]
#4435723 - 07/21/05 09:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i remember that Leary just put alcohol and let it steep for 3days and strained and drank ? (sorry no sources)
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http://www.bruceeisner.com/ -Creating a Sensible Culture
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Mobius_Strip
Distant Relative
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 322
Loc: Spangladesh
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: Shroomery Science Project: a Jungle Extraction of Psilocybin, need verification [Re: liveby]
#4438043 - 07/22/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Isn't that how medicinal mushroom tinctures are made? By steeping in alcohol I mean. I don't see why this wouldn't work... It would be mushroom infused everclear.
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
Edited by Mobius_Strip (07/22/05 12:54 PM)
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