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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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"The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation
    #433628 - 10/22/01 08:01 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

The Grudge

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.

Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Saturn ascends, comes round again.
Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done.

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what you will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control.
Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper.

Defining, confining, sinking deeper. Controlling, defining, and we're sinking deeper.

Saturn comes back around to show you everything
Let's you choose what you will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again
Spits you out like a child, light and innocent.

Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or
Drags you down like a stone to
Consume you till you choose to let this go.
Choose to let this go.

Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

Let go.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #433641 - 10/22/01 08:13 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

"Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen."
I think it is referring to that nathaniel hawthorne book 'The Scarlet Letter'. The guys who pinned the letter onto the woman for her being immoral to the eyes of the puritan society. So it refers to persecution.

"Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end."

A 'cornerstone' is:
-A stone at the corner of a building uniting two intersecting walls; a quoin.
-Such a stone, often inscribed, laid at a ceremony marking the origin of a building.
-An indispensable and fundamental basis: the cornerstone of an argument.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Anonymous

Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #433677 - 10/22/01 08:39 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Well from my take on it, it is saying to clear yourself of karmic patterns, otherwise suffer from them.
It is interesting when it speaks of Saturn Ascends..
Saturn has come to represent both the physical limits and the karmic process where our lives is divided in cycles of learning. With each Saturn's return we come to rememorate (consciously or unconsciously) our previous experiences. Hopefully we'll learn from successes and failures. This would also be a time to reap what we have sow.

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: ]
    #433987 - 10/23/01 08:23 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Stuck thinking....Assumptions...People tend to get into negative filters they expect the worst..everyone is task result oriented nobody just lets go.....The grudge holds you back from the things that you should be enjoying, because you are to busy worrying about stupid shit......... also incorporates all or nothing thinking and what it does... it really is a vicious cycle we do it to protect ourselves yet we are slowly dying inside
lateralus the song kind of answers the grudge... i has the solutions for letting go... aka embracing the random spiraling..... go with the turbulence
these are all splintered thoughts but maybe they will help
its the tunnel vision that kills us (grudge)....look around

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #433989 - 10/23/01 08:26 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

by the way... don't look at tool's songs through them....take it in let it go through you... force it to convey your emotions...
these songs are best interpreted by each individual and their experiences.... soak it in

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #434340 - 10/23/01 03:19 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i know, the definition/explanation was so people knew what those words were, dy definition, so they can grasp themselves to the song better to "interpret" it.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #434649 - 10/23/01 08:48 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

yeah I "know", I wasn't talking to you, i gathered that since your information was more factual you were just defining some of the things in the song..... Its so hard though for me to understand why anyone would ask what it means.... it means everything the whole album flows.... aside from ticks and leeches... people need to be a little more creative it means whatever you want it too

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #434884 - 10/23/01 11:48 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i know, i was debriefing the Tool masses on what some itty bitty pitty references were. Open minds to other ideas and possibilities. The adjacent trajectories don't all flow down the river one way you know- the current is subsided, and the benthos radiates helping hands of wisdom and love.


--------------------
I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #434886 - 10/23/01 11:50 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Plus, I hope people will post their interpretations of the songs here- the more the merrier.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #435062 - 10/24/01 05:07 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

i like you...i really respect the way you feel it is very true lateralus made me really think especially dis/ref/triad

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #435064 - 10/24/01 05:11 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

i don't like reading others interps... it makes me sad people always take everything so literal.... they don't see beyond it :)
4 deg for example to me is amazing... yeah literally it is about anal sex but i never even thought that while listening to it. Maynard is good with fucking with peoples heads and most tool fans are morons... i could be to, i suppose that is perception ha ha but tool and tori are one of the few things that makes me emotional
"desensitized to everything what became of subltey"

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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #435195 - 10/24/01 10:41 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

What about prison sex? That's my favorite Tool video.
It's about abuse, but what about the other two characters? (The caterpillar and that robot-like being)

Adam Jones is a psycho...

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #435419 - 10/24/01 02:20 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I don't look at it in that way....
I look at it as in complete emptiness and the release you feel when you do sadistic things...the emptiness may have been caused from abuse or several other things...
Its the digging for anything, something more
"hence I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this shit blood and cum on my hands"
i think it is what happens when you really care for someone and have been completely drained you are dead inside and have nothing to give.... its a hatrid a need to make something pure (lamb and martyr) ugly just like you. The killing of the innocence and then the guilt felt afterwords because of the complete violation. Everything comes back full circle its a moment of release but a lifetime of guilt

that is my take on it
again i interpreted it through myself, I have never taken it up the ass but i know what its like to be desperate for anything that makes you feel whether it is sadistic or not
hopefully this will help... i don't pay close attention to the music videos remember tool likes to fuck with your head don't take them literal all the time but don't look to in depth we will never really know the true meaning only the lyricist and the band can hold that close to their hearts

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: "The Grudge"- meaning and interpretation [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #435422 - 10/24/01 02:23 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

ha oops forgot something
ok the robot and the catepillar.. if you think about it the catepillar is pure innocent still hasn't bloomed into a butterfly...the machine has lost feelings it is simply wires...
take that into consideration
just a thought take it easy

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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #435479 - 10/24/01 03:01 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

that's what i love about tool, they layer so much symbolism and metaphor onto everything they do, that it seems like they are one big metaphor, you can draw connections among everything they've ever done.

what do you think about the progression of the albums? opiate-undertow-aenima-lateralus. you can definitely see patterns of thought there, for example-

a quest to understand, possibly initated by pain and disappointment, bringing frustration and pseudo-enlightenment: opiate. giving in to the negativity of the world and self-distruction: undertow. becoming aware of the pitiful self-deception of the world and himself: aenima. acceptance and balance and true (?) enlightenment after going inside and purging himself: lateralus.

of course thats just one interpretation... but there's no doubt there is a growth in their albums. i wonder, did they happen naturally as they put out new albums, or did they have a plan from the beginning?


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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: [Re: Amoeba665]
    #435783 - 10/24/01 06:55 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

huge growth... someone mentioned to me the other night that opiate seems so primitive and it really does... I love cold and ugly and would like to hear a studio version
In flood he makes references to ego crucification just in a different light..... undertow still lacks hope... it is more anger and the hopelessness of being at the bottom
Anima is hopeless in many ways too... aside from 46 &2 Jimmy is really the start of the hopeful tool.... The light basically... lateralus is real and painful yet so hopeful.... i love it that is what sets it aside from the wall or kid a....
Its like a circle though.... the hope the progression and then the downfall to nothing then there is the stagnent numb nothing and the cycle starts again...
its so true though even when you are at the bottom naked and there seems to be nothing left you still hold on
Tool makes you find a "beauty in the dissonance" the upheavel and emptiness of emotions by excepting them as part of life...
I don't know It just means a lot to me
I do not think maynard is god i think he is a little penis head but he is so good at concepts and conveying emotions very honest and in touch with reality :)

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: [Re: Amoeba665]
    #435785 - 10/24/01 06:56 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I think it just came from time... experience learning to face instead of deny The progression does not look planned to me in the least bit

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #435981 - 10/24/01 10:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I think in just about all of Tool's stuff- images, videos, music, etc. has meaning, usually very deep meaning....incredibly deep. It seems like its just there to fuck with your head unless you get it...almost one of those things where you just "know" but is very hard to communicate through words. Tales of the inexpressible. Tool is an incredible band, they are not bullshit....they know what is coming.....and they remember...


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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InvisibleMy Third Eye
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Re: [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #436196 - 10/25/01 04:35 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

the great thing about tool and their videos is maynard is writing the lyrics the band is doing the music as a whole and the guitarist adam jones is making his own interpretation with the videos..i loved the new schizm video..when i first saw it i thought of the people walking around on all fours as some sort of primates..sort of symbolizing humans and their miscommunication..


--------------------
suddenly a flaming stealth banana split the sky
like one would hope but never really expect
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...Holy fucking shit!

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #436337 - 10/25/01 09:44 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

ticks and leeches is a perfect example people get too deep it's the cool thing now adays to be "deep" or "depressed".... people end up drowning in it....

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Offlinejustthiz
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Tool [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #436616 - 10/25/01 03:13 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

TOOL is my favorite band man ... i can talk about 'em all day long but now i only can say they make great art... and you just have to experience it for yourself... Tool has got incredibly much to offer... you sometimes get an idea/feeling about the song but it's often just too subtle to explain...you have to experience it !

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OfflineElvish
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Re: [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #436622 - 10/25/01 03:18 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I saw Tool in TexAss back in '99(?)...
...anyway I don't claim to be the most devout fan but I always thought that their songs had DEEP symbolism...unlike ANYTHING else this world has seen or heard!
I Pacifically tink they have hidden (and not so hidden)
references to vegetarian spirituality...
...carrots in particular!











just kidding.

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OfflineTeRzMaStA
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Re: Tool [Re: justthiz]
    #436632 - 10/25/01 03:26 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

TOOL kicks ass! I'm seeing them november 1st. All of thier albums are good. Opiate seems kinds simple if u look at it but they just progressed as musicians. Maynard isn't god but he's a fuckin fantastic singer/song writer. Everyone in that band is an insane musician. Its gonna be so dope to see them live.


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Think for yourself; Question Authority

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: TeRzMaStA]
    #436703 - 10/25/01 05:04 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

They have progessed in HUGE steps. Lateralus is just fucking amazing, and there is very deep symbolism, parables, and not so hard to get stuff.....they deal in magick rituals, sacred geometry, psychedelics, .....they know whats up....and down, right, left, around, through, in between, passed, before, imploded, exploded, nothing, everything.....


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Offlinejustthiz
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #436715 - 10/25/01 05:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

TOOL JUST FUCKINGGGGGGGGGG RULEEEEEEEEEEEES MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT?!

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: justthiz]
    #436865 - 10/25/01 07:21 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

RiGHT!


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Anonymous

Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #436953 - 10/25/01 08:34 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

As above so below and beyond I imagine.....

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OfflineTeRzMaStA
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #437087 - 10/25/01 10:45 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

i think aenima is their best cd


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Think for yourself; Question Authority

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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: Tool [Re: TeRzMaStA]
    #437835 - 10/26/01 04:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

i think opiate is one of their best. simpler, definitely, but also more direct, and just as deep. check out the lyrics on toolshed.down.net if you haven't.

remember this from undertow...

It was daylight when you woke up in your ditch. You looked up at your sky then. That made blue be your color. You had your knife there with you too. When you stood up there was goo all over your clothes. Your hands were sticky. You wiped them on your grass, so now your color was green. Oh Lord, why did everything always have to keep changing like this. You were already getting nervous again. Your head hurt and it rang when you stood up. Your head was almost empty. It always hurt you when you woke up like this. You crawled up out of your ditch onto your gravel road and began to walk, waiting for the rest of your mind to come back to you. You can see the car parked far down the road and you walked toward it. "If God is our Father," you thought, "then Satan must be our cousin." Why didn't anyone else understand these important things? You got to your car and tried all the doors. They were locked. It was a red car and it was new. There was an expensive leather camera case laying on the seat. Out across your field, you could see two tiny people walking by your woods. You began to walk towards them. Now red was your color and, of course, those little people out there were yours too.

"mental illness is the road to freedom..." - jello biafra


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InvisibleMy Third Eye
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Re: Tool [Re: ]
    #438353 - 10/27/01 04:15 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

drawn way outside the lines of reason


--------------------
suddenly a flaming stealth banana split the sky
like one would hope but never really expect
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...Holy fucking shit!

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Anonymous

Re: Tool [Re: My Third Eye]
    #438370 - 10/27/01 05:06 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

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OfflineSteppinRazer
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Re: Tool [Re: Anonymous]
    #438459 - 10/27/01 10:36 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Okay kids we all know their lyrics, no need to just post lyrics :)
not bitching it just makes long threads more time consuming to read.

Anyway, so much of Tool is coming from Terence McKenna and his views. It would be a whole paper to examine and demonstrate this. The same thing with Bill Hicks. He would almost directly quote him.
There is nothing new under the sun. As far as the grudge, you might as well have written it about me, it is about control freaks and as far as the Mckenna angle, about the dominator culture in general (ie Food of the Gods).
Someone mentioned most tool fans are morons: I agree. I saw them three times around when Undertow came out and refuse to go now due to all the idiots there. The last time I saw them I couldnt handle it, a band I relate to on so many levels playing to a bunch of meathead jocks, I flipped out and having a fit, I danced so hard that my feet were bleeding from my shoes cutting into my feet.

Whoever mentioned the plant matrix: So true, that carrot song is poking fun at what I believe is a large part of his own philosophy and McKenna.

Here is a great site for interpretations and some good research as far as topics discussed in Tool lyrics.

http://innuendocornecopria.com/

as far as the artist on the new album here is his site.

http://www.alexgrey.com

and for Aenima era art, most of the tool imagery is this artist Daniel Ouellette

http://www.concentric.net/%7ESpew/main.html

Anyway, hope some of this is informative.




--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
So says the preacher man. . .
But I dont go by what he says.

Edited by SteppinRazer (10/28/01 06:25 PM)

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: SteppinRazer]
    #438524 - 10/27/01 12:54 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

thanks for posting those links.
Bill Hicks is great. I burned a copy of a bunch of his acts...he is/was very funny.
Tool does not only directly take views from Mckenna, Hicks, etc. Not any more then how we help to expand our mind and form ourselves from exposing ourselves to these ideas through reading, music, or whatever.


--------------------
I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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OfflineSteppinRazer
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #438635 - 10/27/01 03:29 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Ow, I was far from slagging on them. They have been one of my favorite bands for years.


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---------------------------------------------------
So says the preacher man. . .
But I dont go by what he says.

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InvisibleGlowing_Eleven
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Re: Tool [Re: SteppinRazer]
    #439078 - 10/28/01 03:16 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

i think most tool fans are idiots too but that wouldn't stop me from seeing them live... and if it stopped you i find it sad.........people are idiots in general ive learned it does nothing to avoid........just look and laugh

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OfflineSteppinRazer
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Re: Tool [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #439164 - 10/28/01 08:51 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Well, that and my disdain for large venues and high ticket prices :)


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---------------------------------------------------
So says the preacher man. . .
But I dont go by what he says.

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: SteppinRazer]
    #439170 - 10/28/01 09:01 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

hey i tried numerous times trying to get into www.innuendocornecopria.com but it won't load, at most it will load 39%. I haven't seen any pics or text come up on the web page though.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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OfflineSteppinRazer
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #439570 - 10/28/01 06:26 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Loads fine for me. Maybe your browser doesnt support the scripts.


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---------------------------------------------------
So says the preacher man. . .
But I dont go by what he says.

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #439740 - 10/28/01 08:06 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

well im pretty sure my browser is IE5, the most recent one i figure.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #441192 - 10/29/01 08:31 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

ya when i saw Tool at Hershey, PA on Sept. 25 I noticed quite a bit of the line that I was in waiting to get into the arena- were idiots. Drunk and bashing into each other....wtf? I didn't mind too much, a lot of the people were really cool. I was shrooming in line and the drunk bisterds looked like some primite warrior aliens, especially this one big guy with long blonde hair and a H*A*S*H t-shirt on. Maybe the imbecilical people do actually see there's something deep resonating in the Tool experience. Hey, one thing I was relatively surprised about was that there was basically no moshing going on-on the floor of the arena.....cool shit.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Offlinemissulena
enthusiast
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: Tool [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #441590 - 10/30/01 05:54 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah ive never understood why anyone would want to move to any kind of music

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OfflineSteppinRazer
newbie
Registered: 09/26/01
Posts: 31
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Tool [Re: missulena]
    #441598 - 10/30/01 06:13 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

That was quality. :)


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So says the preacher man. . .
But I dont go by what he says.

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