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InvisibleLos_Pepes
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Swami]
    #4339010 - 06/26/05 11:32 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It always helps if you have super powers



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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Learyfan]
    #4340109 - 06/26/05 07:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well I kinda thought that you were kidding at first and even asked if you were. When you said that you weren't kidding. I took you seriously.

I'm kinda dense at times  :tongue:......I was reading your words and not paying any attention to the pix you were posting.

:sorry:

:peace: :peace: :peace:


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 hour, 57 minutes
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: niteowl]
    #4340248 - 06/26/05 07:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

:grin:

It's cool. :rasta:






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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Swami]
    #4340628 - 06/26/05 09:44 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Swami The War is over and We Won.




The War is Over, and We Won
The American Enterprise Online ^ | 6/20/05 | Karl Zinsmeister


http://www.theamericanenterprise.org/issues/articleID.18615/article_detail.asp

Your editor returned to Iraq in April and May of 2005 for another embedded period of reporting. I could immediately see improvements compared to my earlier extended tours during 2003 and 2004. The Iraqi security forces, for example, are vastly more competent, and in some cases quite inspiring. Baghdad is now choked with traffic. Cell phones have spread like wildfire. And satellite TV dishes sprout from even the most humble mud hovels in the countryside.

Many of the soldiers I spent time with during this spring had also been deployed during the initial invasion back in 2003. Almost universally they talked to me about how much change they could see in the country. They noted progress in the attitudes of the people, in the condition of important infrastructure, in security.

I observed many examples of this myself. Take the two very different Baghdad neighborhoods of Haifa Street and Sadr City. The first is an upper-end commercial district in the heart of downtown. The second is one of Baghdad?s worst slums, on the city?s north edge.

I spent lots of time walking both neighborhoods this spring?something that would not have been possible a year earlier, when both were active war zones, where tanks poured shells into buildings on a regular basis. Today, the primary work of our soldiers in each area is rebuilding sewers, paving roads, getting buildings repaired and secured, supplying schools and hospitals, getting trash picked up, managing traffic, and encouraging honest local governance.

What the establishment media covering Iraq have utterly failed to make clear today is this central reality: With the exception of periodic flare-ups in isolated corners, our struggle in Iraq as warfare is over. Egregious acts of terror will continue?in Iraq as in many other parts of the world. But there is now no chance whatever of the U.S. losing this critical guerilla war.

Contrary to the impression given by most newspaper headlines, the United States has won the day in Iraq. In 2004, our military fought fierce battles in Najaf, Fallujah, and Sadr City. Many thousands of terrorists were killed, with comparatively little collateral damage. As examples of the very hardest sorts of urban combat, these will go down in history as smashing U.S. victories.

And our successes at urban combat (which, scandalously, are mostly untold stories in the U.S.) made it crystal clear to both the terrorists and the millions of moderate Iraqis that the insurgents simply cannot win against today?s U.S. Army and Marines. That?s why everyday citizens have surged into politics instead.

The terrorist struggle has hardly ended. Even a very small number of vicious men operating in secret will find opportunities to blow up outdoor markets and public buildings, assassinate prominent political figures, and knock down office towers. But public opinion is not on the insurgents? side, and the battle of Iraq is no longer one of war fighting?but of policing and politics.

Policing and political problem-solving are mostly tasks for Iraqis, not Americans. And the Iraqis are taking them up, often with gusto. I saw much evidence that responsible Iraqis are gradually isolating the small but dangerously nihilistic minority trying to strangle their new society. With each passing month, U.S. forces will more and more become a kind of SWAT team that intervenes only to multiply the force of the emerging Iraqi security forces, and otherwise stays mostly in the background.

Increasingly, the Iraqi people are taking direction of their own lives. And like all other self-ruling populations, they are more interested in improving the quality of their lives than in mindless warring. It will take some time, but Iraq has begun the process of becoming a normal country.

Karl Zinsmeister is the Editor-in-Chief of The American Enterprise.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4541883 - 08/16/05 10:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Many thousands of terrorists were killed, with comparatively little collateral damage.


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05 Happy 19th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4542030 - 08/16/05 11:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Hey Swami The War is over and We Won.



Guerrilla wars apparently don't count in some people's fantasy world. The sorry fact is that if you do not have peace, the war is not over.

Check out these stats, maybe you could tell the dead U.S. servicemen's families that the war has been over since our chickenhawk-in-chief strutted under the banner proclaiming, 'Mission Accomplished.'


Here's the link to where the table was taken from.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Swami]
    #4542699 - 08/16/05 02:16 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Where did the quote "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" come from? If it's a paraphrasing, you can't use quotation marks to make it seem as if it were one statement.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 hour, 57 minutes
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: trick]
    #4542769 - 08/16/05 02:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trick said:
Many thousands of terrorists were killed, with comparatively little collateral damage.


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/




Accept for stretching our military paper thin, wasting billions and billions of tax dollars, creating many times the "terrorists" we killed and severely damaging the American government's credibility, I'd say you're right. Of course, all of the things I've mentioned will also hurt our ability to fight a real enemy when the time comes.








--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4542890 - 08/16/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I am sad for the 58 dead soldiers we lost last month.

and I am sad for the 3000 civilians we lost in one day.


interesting site/link. I am sure a lot of the libs/Dem's touch themselves when they go to that site.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05 Happy 19th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4542953 - 08/16/05 04:00 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I am sad for the 58 dead soldiers we lost last month.

and I am sad for the 3000 civilians we lost in one day.



What do 3000 civilians lost (I presume you mean 9/11) have to do with Iraq? These are two separate issues.

Quote:

I am sure a lot of the libs/Dem's touch themselves when they go to that site.



I would expect such a comment to come from someone experiencing the early throes of puberty... or an Ann Coulter wannabe.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4543084 - 08/16/05 04:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Guerrilla wars apparently don't count in some people's fantasy world. The sorry fact is that if you do not have peace, the war is not over.




It's impossible to destroy all guerillas in any given conflict. One could postulate that since the militia groups and anti-government ideology that spawned the McVeigh style attackers still exist, we haven't 'won' that war. Sometimes it's more important to fight the war than to be able to claim 'victory'.
Quote:


Check out these stats, maybe you could tell the dead U.S. servicemen's families that the war has been over since our chickenhawk-in-chief strutted under the banner proclaiming, 'Mission Accomplished.'




The mission of overthrowing the government was established. What do you see as the mission? The total absense of any violence what-so-ever in Iraq? That will never be accomplished. Most servicemen, and their families, support the war efforts.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4543303 - 08/16/05 05:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I am sad for the 58 dead soldiers we lost last month.

and I am sad for the 3000 civilians we lost in one day.



What do 3000 civilians lost (I presume you mean 9/11) have to do with Iraq? These are two separate issues.




And this is where we will never see eye to eye. I think that they are exactly equivalent because there has been a perceived weakness and lack of resolution of the USA which has led each of these scumbags to think we will not act no matter how they fuck with us. Impugn this bitches. Jimmy Carter is (or should be) dead! Act up at your peril. We aint eatin' it no mo'


--------------------


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 hour, 57 minutes
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4543664 - 08/16/05 07:37 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
I am sad for the 58 dead soldiers we lost last month.

and I am sad for the 3000 civilians we lost in one day.



What do 3000 civilians lost (I presume you mean 9/11) have to do with Iraq? These are two separate issues.





^This is a good example of how The White House morphed Bin Laden into Hussein in the minds of the American people. The work they've done in that respect is brilliant. Even I gotta say "hat's off".







--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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OfflineBoneMan
Shrimpin ain't easy
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,032
Loc: new new england
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Learyfan]
    #4544350 - 08/16/05 10:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

i think george bush must have had one of his advisors read him 1984, or at least get him the book on tape..


"...the consequences of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival." - George Orwell, 1984

the U.S government seems quite fond of waging wars that can't be decisively won (terrorism, drugs), therefore the wars become perpetual and we hand over more and more power and give up more and more of our rights to our "protectors"


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: BoneMan]
    #4544553 - 08/16/05 11:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think so; Orwell was a much better writer than Bush's speeches will ever be. I think this is an example of convergent evolution. :wink:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlineblackkrishna
Stranger

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 9
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Ravus]
    #4545053 - 08/17/05 12:51 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

here's a weapon... :smile:

peace,
BK


9/11: Amnesty Intellectual (It's about time.)


President Bush looks very relaxed at his Crawford ranch, while many people in the United States and the rest of the World are frightened and confused: what's going to happen next? How come we have no predictability? How come we disagree over facts until we have no idea what's going on?

With 9/11 coming up again, perhaps a bit of history will help.

In fact...


President George W. Bush spoke to the World before the UN General Assembly on November 10, 2001:


"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty."


Throughout the corridors of power around the world, a clear message was sent: shut up.


It came in a million lies of attack from The White House, many since disproven, and was echoed proudly by a bought, scared and humbled corporate media. Despite a Zogby Poll (Oct. 04) saying 50% of New Yorkers believe the government had prior knowledge of 9/11 and consciously failed to act, and millions of decent honest people feeling this everywhere else, there is still substantial peer pressure to deny any other possibilities.

Why?

Why do we rationalize: "They probably knew something + but I'm not sure what." as a satisfactory answer?

Why is that a good place to stop when the answer could satisfy so many questions?

When it could bring the world together?

It's crazy how much credibility one gets from just saying: "Well I'm not one for conspiracy theories...", no matter the nonsense or sins of omission that follow. Our herded gullibility buys fake credibility, and even though Fahrenheit 9/11 recently showed millions the media lies to protect the government from the people, we still fight to defend half-truths we learned against concerned citizens with a wealth of evidence they worked like hell to find.

(sigh)

So: an all-purpose argument for anybody to tell everybody...


Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State (2005)


Downloaded: 5000 times


SOURCE - www.archive.org/details/MartialLaw911


MARTIAL LAW 911: RISE OF THE POLICE STATE Information Resource Companion Web Site.

SOURCE - www.martiallaw911.info/index.htm


(...)


THE TOP 10 REASONS WHY YOU SHOULD WATCH IT


1) All information we receive is based on editorial decisions, including the repetition of a good story, like celebrity scandals. Here the footage, interviews and documents culled from hundreds of mainstream news sources is real, including foreign press, live TV slip-ups, or just great stories that got buried. This is as "real" as anything else we believe, and the use of 80% mainstream "news" sources makes this "news", not blind theorizing.

2) The militarization of security is troubling, especially when they don't tell us about it. This movie shows where America may be going, and the attacks on the Constitution and plans for the World are crazy. Whether it gets there or not is certainly debatable, but this film establishes clear intent. Widespread information may provoke public outrage, if it's done in secret it'll be impossible to stop.

3) "Qui bono" is latin for "who profits", and this film establishes the money to be made from their actions. The rich making billions of dollars off war and increased security are intimately connected to the senior members of the government, and this film is being given away for free by the people who care to expose it...

blackkrishna.blogspot.com...about.html


Peace, (NOW!!!)
BK

_________________

...

Black Krishna Brand

Philosophy - blackkrishna.blogspot.com/

Music - www.soundclick.com/bands/0/blackkrishna.htm

...


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05 Happy 19th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4546701 - 08/17/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And this is where we will never see eye to eye.



That would require that you open your eyes.

Quote:

I think that they are exactly equivalent because there has been a perceived weakness and lack of resolution of the USA which has led each of these scumbags to think we will not act no matter how they fuck with us.



Huh? That makes about as much sense as beating up a paraplegic to demonstrate to members of the gang that attacked you before that you mean business.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05 Happy 19th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4546832 - 08/17/05 01:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalMystery said:
It's impossible to destroy all guerillas in any given conflict.



I wouldn't say impossible, though the odds might be high depending upon the conflict and the support for the guerrillas among the general populace.

Quote:

One could postulate that since the militia groups and anti-government ideology that spawned the McVeigh style attackers still exist, we haven't 'won' that war.



That was not a war and there have been no other attacks that I know of. McVeigh was not the member of any militia and most if not all militias have publicly condemned his actions. McVeigh and Nichols attend two Militia of Michigan meetings and were told to leave because they were advocating violence. McVeigh learned the craft of killing in the U.S. Army in Iraq, in whose employ he also learned to accept 'collateral damage' as being justified.

Quote:

Sometimes it's more important to fight the war than to be able to claim 'victory'.



What? Claims of victory are not important, cessation of organized hostilities are. What the hell is the point of fighting a war if there is no goal?

Quote:

The mission of overthrowing the government was established.



Was that the mission? I thought it was to prevent a mushroom cloud over the U.S.? Oh, no wait, was it to liberate the Iraqi people? No wait, wasn't it to create more terrorists? You're right, mission accomplished.

Quote:

Most servicemen, and their families, support the war efforts.



What does that really mean, 'support the war effort'? For many people that may mean supporting their loved ones in carrying out their sworn duties and hoping they come back alive. Some of these same people may feel that that war was unwarranted in the first place. I know a few people like this myself (including family). Since it can lead to a disciplinary action for active duty personnel to publicly express an opinion against the chickenhawk-in-chief, I wouldn't be too confident in any figures regarding such individuals that you may have in support of that assertion. Regardless, the number of adherents to a particular position is no determinant of whether or not it is the correct position.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4547418 - 08/17/05 04:25 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And this is where we will never see eye to eye.



That would require that you open your eyes.

OOOOOOH a snappy rejoinder. And one of your best I might add

Quote:

I think that they are exactly equivalent because there has been a perceived weakness and lack of resolution of the USA which has led each of these scumbags to think we will not act no matter how they fuck with us.



Huh? That makes about as much sense as beating up a paraplegic to demonstrate to members of the gang that attacked you before that you mean business.




Your failure to get the point does not indicate that there is no point. It just indicates that YOU are myopic. Your analogy is nonsensical. Perhaps that paraplegic was the Christopher Walken character in "Things To Do In Denver When You're Dead" Perhaps he ordered hits on your leader and friends and made overtures to the self same scum who trashed your house and shot your wife. Perhaps there are dots you can't connect because you don't want to and prefer to toe the moonbat party line like all the other Kosmonauts.


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Bush: "We can win, no we can't, yes we can" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4547619 - 08/17/05 05:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

here comes the.....

"Pubescent, Prepuberty, Prepubescent, Prepubertal, puertal Pupillarity"

response...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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