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Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan.
    #4334107 -

I was listening to one of his recording mp3s today and he admitted he was a fan of a lot of science fiction books. Kinda makes me doubt his credibility when not 5-minute later he's going off about timewave zero and self-transforming DMT machine-elves as theory based in reality. It all makes sense to me now.


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4334116 -

That is no shock, considering his ideas...that are only deemed credible by drug users anyway.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4334121 -

Terrence never claimed to invent the elves. If anything, he would say they were always there, though not for certain. He also liked The Rolling Stones and Jerry Garcia.

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: sox24]
    #4334133 -

Terrence McKenna was a counterculture entertainer...nothing more. He could be pretty funny, but to take him serious is a mistake.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4334176 -

I don't understand fully his ideas of 2012. He talked about it, so I'm assuming he believed it, that time could be coming to an end, perhaps rather a transition or monumental change. I'm not sure what to think. He was more or less saying the old time calendars had that too. Not sure about his ideas about the I-Ching, don't know enough about it. What do you think?

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: sox24]
    #4334205 -

I was just awake for over 24 hours and was attempting to fall asleep and was mildly hallucinating (no drugs, just fatigue). As I was dozing off I saw hordes of small people rushing across my field of vision. Nothing magical or elf-like, but who knows where that imagery comes from? Have seen something similar at the tale end of a trip.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: sox24]
    #4334206 -

One of his claims is that he calculated his timewave graph ending two years before someone told him that that's almost exactly when the 10,000 year mayan calendar ended.
If that's true then it's enough of a coincidence in my mind that the possibility is worth considering.  Maybe he was stretching the truth somehow though?  I don't know. I never get tired of speculating about it and 2012. :smile: :stash: :ass: :thumbup:


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Swami]
    #4334218 -

yeah that's just your Midget Screen-saver. go to bed.


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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Swami]
    #4334239 -

"As I was dozing off I saw hordes of small people"

Sometimes I see them crawling all over my skin, and I have to swat at them to make them go back...often I need a razor blade...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4334246 -

Try an ice pick. Stab maniacally at them as they rush across your chest and groinal region. That stops 'em pretty quickly.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Swami]
    #4334260 -

Actually I was really considering gasoline...but an ice pick may work...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4334341 -

so, was he not supposed to have hobbies and interests?

I think his work with Timewave Zero was a little bogus, but Food of the Gods and his work relating religion with the entheogenic experience (following R. Gordon Wasson) is definitely of interest.

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335282 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Terrence McKenna was a counterculture entertainer...nothing more. He could be pretty funny, but to take him serious is a mistake.


I don't think he was NOTHING more than an entertainer. That's going to extremes Hue. That's like saying Castanada was nothing more than a fiction writer, and so his ideas are of no value whatsoever, he was an entertainer and nothing more.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4335304 -

yeah that sci-fi stuff is pure poison...
them craaazy astronauts that went to the moon & all (& most of them silly ol' engineers that's designed the missions from mercury, gemini, & apollo, right on through the shuttle (& the solar sail project "cosmos", which failed due to the russki delivery vehicle & not a payload failure :frown: ...) were all a buncha scifi fans... definitely a mark againt their intellectual capacities in the big book o' life... shucks, some of 'em might even believe in evolution...
good day to you, sir!


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4335306 -

question_for_joo said:
I was listening to one of his recording mp3s today and he admitted he was a fan of a lot of science fiction books. Kinda makes me doubt his credibility when not 5-minute later he's going off about timewave zero and self-transforming DMT machine-elves as theory based in reality. It all makes sense to me now.


I would be sceptical about any scientist that doesn't have interest into sci-fi, after all, every new technology starts as a sci-fi vision. You can't progress if you don't have new wild ideas


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4335396 -

I am sorry, while I find McKenna's ideas fun to read, most of it is the kind of stuff you dream up while laying around stoned. Castaneda had more relevance to me, and there are many ideas in his later books I would holler bullshit on....tensegrity for instance.....big bullshit...naugal and tonal...bullshit...the mold of man...bullshit. His early work was inspired by speaking to and recieving instruction from several shamen...so this adds an element of experience. McKenna came up with his ideas by staying intoxicated. I could easily dream up this kind of stuff...and have...and if I were so inclined, write a book on it. If I wrote well and enobled drug use by implying that it was the root of the foundations of our conciousness evolution, or some shit, there would be a segment of the entheogen community that would adopt it. Just because I can put it in print does not mean that it is relevant. Remember what you said in the celebrity thread? For the record "True Hallucinations" is one of my very favorite books. McKenna and Castaneda both inspired me, but when I wanted hard information about shamanism I went elsewhere.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335423 -

Yes, I hear you. And he was an exploring psychonaut. I first got the idea of how usefull committed doses of psychedelics could be for self transformation. That one thing was worth reading TM for me. I could have gotten it somewhere else maybe, but that's were I got it. His other ideas about early man and mushrooms got me thinking about all sorts of things which lead me to other writers and then others.

As a side note. I quit reading Castanada after Tales of Power. I tried the next book and could tell, something was very askew. He didn't sound the same. The ideas seemed pop. I frankly didn't believe it was him for awhile, or he was deliberately throwing people off. Whatever. The first four books have stood the test of time for me. Not all the far fetched adventures but the principles. And I do not completely disregard the idea of the naugal and tonal. I relate the tonal to the cultural construct of the personality our thought process in gereral. The naugal is the Tao that cannot be talked about. These have been usefull concepts for me.

The celeb thread? Well I also use opinions I gather here to advance my views and personal S&P. In fact I have found my conversations with you especially productive at times. But I know when to go my own way. Just because you think the tonal and naugal are bullshit doesn't mean I have to or that you are correct. Right? :wink: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4335439 -

"As a side note. I quit reading Castanada after Tales of Power. I tried the next book and could tell, something was very askew. He didn't sound the same. The ideas seemed pop."

Yes, his cast of characters even changed drastically...then all of the "second attention" stuff where he remembers these people in the earlier days but had to be in second attention to do it? Where did the original apprentices go? His focus changed from leading a clean efficient life to eluding death by "burning from the fire from within". Then he is endorsing other authors who were the "new apprentices". Oh yeah...suddenly it was no longer an Indian tradition, but an international conspricy of magical lineages and Don Juan just happened to be an Indian. I think Mr. Castaneda made a little too much money for his own good.

"And I do not completely disregard the idea of the naugal and tonal."

What I do not like is that he stole the Huichol Indian concepts of naugal and tonal and modified the meaning of the words to meet his requirement. He gave several meanings for naugal as well. This is a sort of cultural theft. A naugal IS a Huichol shapeshifter by the way.

I am not here to tell anyone what to think...I just act like I am because I have a big ego.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/25/05 09:37 AM)

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335450 -

Yep we pretty much agree here. Castanada did I believe mention that he looked up the defination of Naugal and said something like what you said, but that Don Jaun used the term much differently. Do you remember that? When they first started talking about the concept?

Weather he stole it and modified it or not. I am to this day facinated with the concept. It fits into my dreaming world theory quite nicely. Although I have also redefined it somewhat as you have seen. Shamelessly too, I might add. :grin: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4335467 -

"Castanada did I believe mention that he looked up the defination of Naugal and said something like what you said,"

I remember that he said something about it. My middle brother, who is schizophrenic, read those books during an active phase of his illness. He liked the tonal/naugal idea very much...and he understood it well. Then, he integrated it into his delusional ideas in a frightening way. He went through a period where the Castaneda stuff pervaded his illness. It was useful in helping me understand it better actually, but it was scary shit and I wish I had never gave him the books because of the subsequent stress I experienced. I gave him "Lord of the Rings" as well, but he did not have the same response to it THANK GOD. He is better now, though, having sought treatment. Last fall he completed a degree in sociology despite this crippling illness. He is a strong motherfucker.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335499 -

He does sound strong, :thumbup: and worth knowing; and that strength seems to run in the family. :thumbup: I have always loved the Tolkien trilogy, and have read it many times.

Hey! you weren't insinuating that I might be crazy were you? :grin: :grin: I also suspect it from time to time. :crazy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4335536 -

I don't insinuate...I just say. I don't play head games except in fun. I was just telling an interesting related story...not making commentary.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335576 -

Hue! I know that! We have discussed it, remember? I was making a joke at myself. :thumbup: :grin: :heart: When I said "I suspect it", I was refering to the fact that I suspect myself of being crazy. Sorry for the confusion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4349936 -

:wink: :blush: :mushroom2: :thumbup: :playboy: :flipthebird:

My dearest friends. Might I interject for a moment "s'il vous plait?" ? ?? Okay okay

lets think about this shall we. Terence Mckenna was a genius, mkay? Carlos Castaneda was a foolhardy evangelist sitting in a cockhardy armchair. You know it.

Let's think about other things too. Like 2012. Now. Repeat. too thou sand and twelve.

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Gog]
    #4349949 -

And for the record, Shroomery should have the lunatic from Iceland removed ce moment s'il vous te plait, mkay?

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Gog]
    #4350021 -

Gog said:
:wink: :blush: :mushroom2: :thumbup: :playboy: :flipthebird:

My dearest friends. Might I interject for a moment "s'il vous plait?" ? ?? Okay okay

lets think about this shall we. Terence Mckenna was a genius, mkay? Carlos Castaneda was a foolhardy evangelist sitting in a cockhardy armchair. You know it.

Let's think about other things too. Like 2012. Now. Repeat. too thou sand and twelve.


Gee, I wish I could speak french or what ever that is. Then I might have a clue about what you are saying. The english part of it I got and for the record would have to say you have not enough experience personally with either of these authors to have more than an uninformed opinion. So... get back to your armchair and have a lite beer. Ya got to watch those calories. :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Icelander]
    #4350113 -

I have no calories Icelander! fool of a took!

I am VERY experienced with both of those writers, having read much of their short essay/stories or books/story books.

carlos castaneda is a fool of a took.

timothy leary is a good guy.
terence mckenna is a goodguy.
capiche?

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Re: Terence Mckenna was a Sci-Fi fan. [Re: Gog]
    #4350160 -

Gog said:
I have no calories Icelander! fool of a took!

I am VERY experienced with both of those writers, having read much of their short essay/stories or books/story books.

carlos castaneda is a fool of a took.

timothy leary is a good guy.
terence mckenna is a goodguy.
capiche?


Well Gandalf, Have you any experience applying the "principles" in the first four of Castanadas books? Taking life as a challenge, losing self importance, using death as and advisor, ect.? Were they a complete wash for you?

I also admire Mckenna. yet I never had a personal conversation with him or Castanada. Or lived around them enough to know them. That's the kind of informed knowledge I was refering to. My opinion of them is uninformed also although I have read much and choose to believe much from both of them. :mushroom2:

Good to know you are out there watching over us hobbits. As Gandalf said there is more to them than you might imagine.  :mushroom2: :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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