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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Icelander's latest mindfuck
    #4328990 - 06/23/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

first there was that dragon...  then something else icelander posted really gave me a mindfuck.

Quote:

crunchytoast said: i think everyone's unhappy. everyone's happy too. it depends on which part of the person is being accessed.




Quote:

Icelander said: Happiness/unhappiness. Yes! But you can effect the balance me thinks, Therefore me am. Me thinks? :confused: :grin: :heart:




i think i agree with that.  i was trying to say that happiness and sadness are both there because both can be accessed, since theyre both there, even if theyre unconscious.  so balance can't even be an issue.  so i agree and disagree  :confused:

sometimes when i encounter sadness, it turns out to be something that was there for a while that my ego wasn't ready to face.  you ask me today i say happy, you ask me tomorrow i may have tripped balls and seen sadness underneath that happiness.  which is real?

the paradox for me is: on the one hand one aspect of knowing something is that you can never know that you know.  i get from that, the only thing that's real is what you think is real.

on the other hand theres the idea of an unconscious:  you can know something without knowing that you know it.  but when you become aware of it, what you thought was real, isnt anymnore, and you never thought it was.

even thinking something is real, its not real.  even 'you'- not just your image of yourself- you- thats not real.

btw thanks icelander, i'm even more confused than usual.
:scrambled::scrambled::scrambled::scrambled::scrambled::scrambled::scrambled::scrambled:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4329156 - 06/23/05 05:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You may be right! :heart:

About being confused I mean. :grin:

It's a good honest place to be and you're in good company. :thumbup: U.R.B.4.U.R.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329205 - 06/23/05 06:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The only honest thing about confusion, is that its honestly confusing. :lol:

I dont find it a "good" place to be at all, I seek to realize by any skillful means possible the clarity, wisdom, clear seeing, and universal compassion of our natural state which is beyond all confusion. But of course, we all must start somewhere, and that somewhere is inevitably the same for everyone, in confusion.  :confused:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329209 - 06/23/05 06:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps confusion is the state between neurosis and acceptance?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329224 - 06/23/05 06:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)


I seek to realize by any skillful means possible the clarity, wisdom, clear seeing, and universal compassion of our natural state which is beyond all confusion.
__________________________________________________________________

Good luck with all that. :goodluck:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329237 - 06/23/05 06:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The irony of it is that i have to give up the "seeking" in order to "realize" the fruit of the path. :lol:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329251 - 06/23/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes! irony is fun. Lovely Chaos!  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329287 - 06/23/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What with the picture in your sig? It seems completely contradictory to me. A symbol of peace, mingled and tarnished by symbols of war. Not unlike the Nazi's marching around killing people with Buddhist swastika symbols on their arms. :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4329290 - 06/23/05 06:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I like your questions.  I will try to keep up with you here.

Happiness and sadness are parts of the construct of human emotions. We seem to all have them. Two people experiencing the same event may have diffenent emotional responses. Why? Could it be how they think about it? Or the way they learned to talk to themselves?

If we have pushed sadness into the unconscious, why? Could it be because we feel we cannot face it? Why does it resurface? Because it want's to be faced so that life can continue as a flow state?

What you think is real, is real for you? That does not mean there is not something of a higher reality?
___________________________________________________________________

"on the other hand theres the idea of an unconscious: you can know something without knowing that you know it. but when you become aware of it, what you thought was real, isnt anymnore, and you never thought it was."
_____________________________________________________________________

You are beyond my comprehension here.^^^^^^ Can you explain that in a different way?

:mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinerickjames86
Stranger
Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 11
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329415 - 06/23/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Who cares about subconcious or sadness, just keep it simple and be happy. Forget all that stuff that makes you mad/sad and live life without a care. Life's short too. Anyways I think that's how it works.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: rickjames86]
    #4329420 - 06/23/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well that's what I'm talking about. You may be able to do just that. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329430 - 06/23/05 07:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Can you give me an answer to my last post Ice. I think you may have overlooked it.  :crazy:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Sinbad]
    #4329455 - 06/23/05 07:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes! I did miss your post.

For me it shows the duality of life. Creation being composed of all paths dark and light. Many in the "new age" movement choose to ignore the darkness and pretend it doesn't exist.

Reminds me of the monks meditating in the graveyards.

And as to my avatar. That's my ego! :grin: Johnny giving the warden the bird. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4329672 - 06/23/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Happiness and sadness are parts of the construct of human emotions. We seem to all have them. Two people experiencing the same event may have diffenent emotional responses. Why? Could it be how they think about it? Or the way they learned to talk to themselves?




hmm.. that's interesting.  you know, i've never thought much about self-talk.  maybe i should check out that handbook for higher consciousness you keep refering to- does it talk about that in there?

Quote:


If we have pushed sadness into the unconscious, why? Could it be because we feel we cannot face it? Why does it resurface? Because it want's to be faced so that life can continue as a flow state?



yes that makes a lot of sense  :thumbup: i especially like the part about the flow state  :grin:

Quote:


What you think is real, is real for you? That does not mean there is not something of a higher reality?




i guess that's what i used to think.  i'm starting to think there's no reality.

Quote:


"on the other hand theres the idea of an unconscious: you can know something without knowing that you know it. but when you become aware of it, what you thought was real, isnt anymnore, and you never thought it was."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You are beyond my comprehension here.^^^^^^ Can you explain that in a different way?





let's say a man marries a woman but doesnt really want to, maybe because of outside pressure or something.  deep down he knows he's not happy.  so he knows he's unhappy in a sense, but he's not aware that he knows.  people ask him if he's happy and he says yes.  then one day watching his daughter fight with her boyfriend, it reminds him of his situation, and suddenly he realizes how dissatisfied he's been all these years.

it's like he thought he was really happy.  but then he realized he wasn't.  so you ask him, are you happy, he says yes.  the next day you ask him, he says, "you know what?  i've never been happy.  i just spent all these years with someone i don't really love and i've neglected my own needs."  and he has to come to grips with that.

what he thought was real (love with his wife) isn't real anymore and he realizes it never was.

to answer rickjames: what's the point if life is short?  well he's realized something about himself that he can use to make better decisions in the future.  but this path may not be right for everybody.  :stoned: :cheers:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4329799 - 06/23/05 08:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Ok I see, (said the blind man).  :grin: This man has never really come in contact with himself. He was first programmed by his birth, then parents, then school, then church and government, and friends and lovers, ect. If he was in his natural state he would never have been fooled, he chooses to fool himself. Once this acculturation is in place we continue it with our self talk. We are trained and no longer need outside input. At some point he no longer has the ENERGY to maintain the lie, and he is confronted with what he knew all along and recognizes it. Now in my opinion, his daughter provided a shock to wake him from his total slumber. The advantage of the shamanic path is that one learns to provide these shocks deliberately so as to awaken before one is old and has lost much of their life ENERGY. :mushroom2:

The book Handbook to Higher Consciousness is the best book I have found for the transformation of the sleeping self to an awakened one. It is short and can be read in less than an hour. I recommended it especially while coming down from a psychedelic high dose experience. The reason being that ones cultural programming is shut down often at this time and there is little resistance to the new program which is more life affirming.

All just one opinion and as you say not for everyone. :heart: :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4330147 - 06/23/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"The book Handbook to Higher Consciousness is the best book I have found for the transformation of the sleeping self to an awakened one. It is short and can be read in less than an hour. I recommended it especially while coming down from a psychedelic high dose experience. The reason being that ones cultural programming is shut down often at this time and there is little resistance to the new program which is more life affirming."

ken keyes was a genius!  I started reading that book 2 years ago and I am still learning things from it.  to anyone out there looking to see a really great way to use your ego and reality around you to transform and shape yourself a happy and helpful mind, handbook to higher consciousness is a great book.  short and to the point.

Icelander, a great compliment to that book is "the Power of Now" by ekhart tolle.  using these two books together provides a really awesome conscious experience.  :laugh:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: kaiowas]
    #4330192 - 06/23/05 10:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Icelander, a great compliment to that book is "the Power of Now" by ekhart tolle. using these two books together provides a really awesome conscious experience.
____________________________________________________________________

Yes! I have used them both and consider them complementary, Keyes book is more of a hands on method. What I liked about Keyes was the fact that he wasn't about money and proved it. He was living love. :thumbup:  :smile: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4330209 - 06/23/05 10:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i just asked salvia what was up and i had CEVs of my father on a picnic bench (from my childhood), his face was made of light, i looked at his chest, there was light emanating there too, and an embryo in it. the embryo floated toward me and as it floated out, it stretched, and as it stretched, it grew older and older suddenly growing 26 years in a few seconds until i realied it was me.

as i looked at "my" face the body reached up and pulled its head off. it had no head, like my father on the bench had no face. i looked in its hands at its head and it was holding a mask. it lifted the mask and put it where the face should be. the mask sat perfectly like resting on an invisible forcefield where my head should be. as if demonstrating, it lifted the mask and rested it on top. then it did a bunch of other things with the mask like multiplied it and span it around as everything dissolved as i came down.

so i really am not real but shouldn't worry about it. plus there's the forcefield, and the forcefield is real.

your post, it seems very simple the way you put it, which helps put things back at rest. good stuff my shamanistic friend.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: Icelander]
    #4330232 - 06/23/05 10:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

" Keyes book is more of a hands on method. "

yes!  I think the same thing too! Keyes gets you involved in the now while tolle gives you ideas on noticing and experiencing the now.

I was in Borders the other day and saw that over 4 million people have read the power of now, very cool to see :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Icelander's latest mindfuck [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4330244 - 06/23/05 10:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What a beatiful lesson. Thank you for sharing this amazing journey. One of the best I have heard. Isn't salvia amazing! :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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