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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please
    #4328716 - 06/23/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

background info:

my friend is working with rye--bulk--colonized completely in 8 days. 4 casings were made with roughly 1.7 quarts rye each. no contams. casing layer colonized a bit too much. into the fruiting chamber right away. mycelium still growing through casing layer probably because temps are mid to upper 80's (even with frozen waterbottle tek). natural (indirect) sunlight about 14 hours per day--that's good. high humidity, no problem there. temp is the only issue and cannot be resolved, but i know cubes will fruit at these high temps. supposedly overlay is not such a huge deal with cubes anyway... i could care less about even pinsets at this point.

my questions are:

is misting going to kill the delicate mycelia that have already surfaced through the casing layer? (3/4 of the casings are nearly overlayed, though the mycelium is not at all dead).
it's only been 3 days, so there are still many more days for pinning to occur. temperature aside, does anyone have any pointers/suggestions? i don't want to fail again.

peace and thank you so very much.


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4328743 - 06/23/05 03:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

increase air exchange. no misting won't hurt the myc but the moisture content should have been right in the first place, hense you shouldn't need to mist. what is your humidity level @???


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: thenewguy05]
    #4328780 - 06/23/05 03:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

air exchange is about 5-7 times per day.

humidity is very high--using perlite to "maximum" benefits tek, i.e. the humidity is probably 95% maybe more. there are tons of very very fine droplets in the glass terrarium. the terr is only 10gal so it holds in a ton of humidity.


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4328820 - 06/23/05 04:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

try lowing the humidity to 91% and expose it to a light cycle


Edited by thenewguy05 (06/23/05 04:14 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: thenewguy05]
    #4328832 - 06/23/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4328852 - 06/23/05 04:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, i read that before scatmanrav, thanks though. this situation is slightly different because the casing layer is 90% colonized and temps are even higher (upper 80's during day). so perhaps it's a matter of time. i just hope the colonizing casing is not going to pose a huge dilema... i'm still afraid to mist with delicate mycelia sitting on top of the casing, is this a valid concern?

and to the previous post: they are getting lots of light - how ever many hours of sunlight there are, they are receiving it, indirectly of course. i think this is much better than any artificial light and i'm hoping nature will help out this time around


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4328868 - 06/23/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I only use natural lighting myself. misting myc is fine as long as you don't spray the fungus directly. if you really feel the need to, then just spray the walls. little beads of water is ok but drops are what's gonna kill ya. it kinda sounds like the humidity is the problem though.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4328872 - 06/23/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Lots of fresh air then..

I did mention in that other post, that if it kept colonizing, the casing could be wrapped up tight and thrown in the fridge for 24 hours to slow veg growth.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4328899 - 06/23/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, i like the idea of the fridge - at what point should i decide to do that? it's been a few days and i *think* the colonization is slowing, although it really took off when i put it in the chamber to fruit!

high humidity is good, i thought? the aquarium is not the tightest of fit anyway, so it's not completely trapped inside--but yes, the humidity is definitely high. i heard that high humidity may encourage mycelial growth to continue? i've also heard that LOW humidity does this, so what gives?


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4329019 - 06/23/05 05:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

well what's happening is you mycellium has a lot of momentum at the moment and in order for it to fruit, you have to slow it down. too much humidity is a bad thing. too low humidity is a bad thing. high humidity is good as long as it's not too high. you aquarium is prolly air/water tight, so it prolly isn't letting too much humidity escape. you heard right, high humidity does encorage mycellial growth and that's the problem. you don't want mycellium anymore, you want the fruits. personally i've never experimented with low humidity so i'm clueless on that one. sorry


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: thenewguy05]
    #4329034 - 06/23/05 05:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

no it's not air tight at all. the humidity is pretty well contained but i can also adjust it depending on how well i put the lids to the aquarium on. i've noticed however that after putting the frozen water bottles in with the casings there have been fewer droplets on the walls. temps are hovering around 85-86 right now, which is good considering that it is 95 degrees outside and there is no air conditioning available.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4329088 - 06/23/05 05:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

some reading material for you....

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23457

tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: Roadkill]
    #4329293 - 06/23/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

thanks again, although i already have read all the parameter material.

i guess what i'm really asking is if you think there is possibility for success considering my high temperatures and near-overlay situation. i'm putting in a newly frozen water bottle every 4-6 hours and that drops it down to the mid to upper 80's. i also heard that cubes will still work even if they colonize the whole casing layer.


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4331712 - 06/24/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

SOME INFO:
so the casings seem to be pulling away from the sides now, which as far as i know means lack of water, although different sources say different things about this. this is strange because a day ago the perlite was creating nearly 100% humidity with lots of micro-beady condensation pearls on the walls, everywhere. now, however, there is no condensation at all--it seems like the perlite just stopped working all of a sudden, which makes no sense (2 inches perlite, 1/2 inch water)--and no, it didn't run out of water because i added more but it didn't fix anything. this disappearance of condensation happens to also coincide with the addition of the frozen water bottle to the terrarium to help with the temps.

THE QUESTION:
SO, is heavy misting going to heal pulling-away casings or will it just kill the mycelium on top and create overlay? (driness will create overlay too, right?)

please help,thank you.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4332305 - 06/24/05 02:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Adding more water, decreases the wa perlite works, if you add to much. Removing water creates more exposed surface area of the perlite, causing humidity to rise. Even with high humidity the casing can still dry out, proper misting needs to be done. Heavy misting wll never slove anything...casings must be kept up with many light mistings to raise humidity. It wont cause the casing to expand though, and now sides are exposed so it will dry out quicker and misting wont help..once it starts shrinking your hurting yourself alot. You can fill in the sides with casing mix or verm (moist of course).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 350
Loc: KY
Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4332447 - 06/24/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yes, i know how perlite works.

but misting has happened every time air exchange has occured (5-7 times per day), so i don't see how it should have shrunk. regardless, the empty spots need to be filled in and this will be done with moist jiffymix.

QUESTION:
since it is somewhat dry, there may be a possibility that the top layer is inpenetrable? thus, should the casing be tilled a bit to promote airation?

(thanks)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4332458 - 06/24/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Does the top layer look fluffy still, or is it becomming more of a mat. It shouldnt be a mat, just from the casing mix, or from the mycelium. Dry casing, over misting casing, or to much mycelium (or a combo) can cause the top layer to be not so great for pin formation. Generally it will still pin though, at least from the sides...that hurts your flush..without some good pics of the casing layer not sure how much else I can tell you. A light rubbing with a gloved hand, or a fork, can help get the casing surface right, but it can disturb the mycelium too, and primordia/pins so you have to be carful about when to do it, and how much.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 350
Loc: KY
Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4332504 - 06/24/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

well there are no pins yet (it's been about 4 days) so i think now would be a good time for some tilling (?).

the top layer is NOT fluffy like it was 2-3 days ago. however, it is certainly not a hardened mat either--it still looks soft, but the mycelium is not necessarily happy with it. i know exactly what the hard mat looks like because my friend tried pftek before this and the cakes dried out and became hard and rubbery. this has not yet happened with this particular grain-based casing attempt. still, it seems to be drying out rather quickly, despite desperate misting attempts.

honestly there is no concern for good flushes. my friend merely wants a couple doses -- you would think 6 quarts of rye (thanks to yours and magash's teks!) would be able to put SOMETHING out, for the love of god. my friend hasn't had mushrooms in over a year and lots of money is just going down the drain as there is trouble with pinning.... even though he's never once had contamination.

is it time to till and fill?

you're helpful, thanks.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: TerrapinSunrise]
    #4332518 - 06/24/05 03:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Four days is prime time for primordia and pins to start showing up..if they are begining to form you may mess them up. An unexperienced eye might not see the beginings either until you actually see knots..but it can do harm before knots are seen. I would leave it alone, or if you do anything, use a clean or gloved hand to lightly rub it up, even out the casing layer..maybe add a light sprinkle in any area that look like they need it.

Constant air exchange is the way to go for iniating pinning..thats the biggest thing...I set my casings out open air after about 2 days in the fruiting chamber for 12 hours, then again the nexct day for 12 hours (for their light cycle) but you gotta keep misting them while sitting out..great for getting pinsets though...possible contam risk but its small if you keep everything clean, havnt had a problem yet.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTerrapinSunrise
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 350
Loc: KY
Re: initiating pinning in high temps -- advice please [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4332594 - 06/24/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ok, so how's this plan:

moisten sterile jiffymix and fill in the sides of the casings. very gentle tilling in areas that appear more or less hardened. sprinkle extra casing material on top of the most heavily colonized parts--to protect it(?). let them sit overnight. tomorrow, free them from the terrarium and let them soak up fresh living room air and wonderful sunlight. during this time, consistent misting to maintain their vital signs. at night, back into the chamber. should i set them back out the next day too?

does this sound good?

peace.


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