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Offlinepharmacyte
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psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth?
    #4327044 - 06/23/05 01:45 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ok, so after getting all excited about the alcohol extraction tek, i re-visited the shroomery and found the new info... seems to shoot that all to hell, and after i plunked down the penny for a magnetic stirrer too, and was about to buy 200 proof alcohol from the state liquor board.  ( http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/12200 )...

then i googled a bit and found a bunch of info on extraction involving acetic acid (the rich man's vinegar), including this page on the DEA website, god i love getting valuable, potentially law-breaking information from the D E fucking A!

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/journal071203/mj071203_pg4.html

obviously ignore the analysation at the end, but dood!  vinegar and baking soda?!  DOOD!!!! :laugh:  i wanna do this, and then put it in a paper-mache' volcano with some red food coloring and flashback to the 3rd grade... i love it.  i can see a bunch of 8 year olds in the DEA lab, arguing over who should win the science fair. :evil:

SO, is it viable?  would the extract (neutralized or not?) be potent?  possible to evaporate some of the solution (with a magnetic stirrer and fan) and retain psychoactivity?

has anyone tried it?

also, what exact role does water have in the degradation of psilocybin/psilocin?

waiting with baited breath,
<<pharmy>>


Edited by pharmacyte (06/26/05 01:48 PM)


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: pharmacyte]
    #4327533 - 06/23/05 05:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlinegarret
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: pharmacyte]
    #4327581 - 06/23/05 06:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

LOL... Why , when the shroom is so goddamned kewl would you wan't to turn it into some sort of rectal thermometer chemical stuff?

Eat manna and get fat... turn fat to gelatin and enter the age of the capsule and then we find the world of weird... With a capital W.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: garret]
    #4327867 - 06/23/05 10:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

WTF is manna?


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OfflineMych
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4328042 - 06/23/05 12:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
WTF is manna?



http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=manna


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OfflineInterested
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4328234 - 06/23/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Acetic acid will only remove a portion -- possibly a very small portion -- of the alkaloids from the mushroom. This is why the microgram article mentions that the method can't be used for quantative determination of alkaloid content.

Psilocybin and psilocin are zwitterions, meaning (more or less) that they're both acidic and basic. This pretty much rules out any holy-grail one step selective extraction process.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: Interested]
    #4328562 - 06/23/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Acetic acid is the most efficient solvent for extracting both psilocybin and psilocin from mushrooms (I can't find the reference at the moment, there was an article comparing the relative extraction efficiencies of acetic acid, methanol and ethanol with various water contents, and a few other solvents). The method used by the DEA is not quantitative because they convert the psilocybin to psilocin, so at GCMS time, the original amounts of psilocin and psilocybin are lost. That method has been used (see the link I posted above) to obtain pure psilocin crystals.


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OfflineInterested
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4330019 - 06/23/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Come to think of it, I've read just that article. I stand corrected; my pessemism was unwarranted. Have you attempted the extraction again since that effort? Do you have access to a reasonable vacuum source? It seems like this might solve the dust problem and aid with any atmosphere provoked psilocin decomposition.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: Interested]
    #4336146 - 06/25/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't tried it again, and I don't have much time these days so I probably won't try until next year. When I do I'll be using a soxhlet extractor under N2 with either ethanol or water.

You're probably right that a good vacuum or evaporating with dry nitrogen would improve the results a lot. Boiling under nitrogen and bubbling nitrogen through all aqueous solutions prior to extraction would probably help as well (water contains almost as much dissolved O2 as air.)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4338911 - 06/26/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Just get some 190 proof everclear from the liquor store. It works wonders. Don't get anal and try to get crystals as they break down in the presence of air very quickly. Just dump your ground to powder dry mushies into a cup or so of everclear and after soaking overnight then filtering until you have CLEAR liquid, evaporate it off until you're down to a half shot glass or so. You can keep this in the freezer for years with no noticable loss of potency. Trust me, it works. I'm sure the 'very strong vinegar' will work too, but you'll have to get past the eye watering smell first. My ex was a chemist and brought some of that home to clean the deposits out of the showers and toilets from our well. After she stunk up the house for three days, I told her to never bring that nasty shit home again. lol
RR


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Edited by RogerRabbit (06/26/05 12:41 PM)


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Offlinepharmacyte
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4339021 - 06/26/05 01:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

the reference to the use of acetic acid is the j. gartz paper you referred to in your "failed extraction" thread, chuang, which is truly fascinating, if at times far above my head. my aim is to produce a crude concentrated solution, not crystals. i simply wish to eliminate as much superfluous organic matter as possible, hence most of the nausea associated with eating cubensis mushrooms...

holee shit theres bunches of posts i am still discovering about this, with no clear conclusions being made except that "it's real hard". well, i will enjoy the process regardless...

so. 70/30 ethyl alcohol @ room temp: the 30% water dissolves psilocin, not psilocybin? then the alcohol evaporates and there you are. am i close? acetic acid 5% (or vinegar): both active alkaloids dissolved and stable?

with your knowledge of chemistry, chuang, would you venture a rough set of guidelines for acetic acid extraction? what effect would heating during the attempted extraction have? how might one reduce the solution? might i be able to produce something to the tune of 1cc = 1 gram of raw dry mushroom?

thanks for the informative and entertain responses. give me more!

<<pharmy>>


Edited by pharmacyte (06/26/05 01:50 PM)


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Offlinepharmacyte
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: pharmacyte]
    #4349352 - 06/29/05 03:52 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

again, what role does h2o have in the oxidation or general breakdown of psilocybin and psilocin within a solution? this question is to accompany the questions in my last post (and to keep this thread on the first page in adv. myc.) thanks for all info,
<<pharmy>>


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OfflineAscension
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: pharmacyte]
    #4354620 - 06/30/05 10:11 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If you do an acid/base extraction correctly you will get crystal. The loss will be great if not done correctly, but an acid/base will only let things through that forms crystals (cant remember the correct name and im studying chem at uni lol) see what holidays do.


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Offline_OttO_
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: Ascension]
    #4365454 - 07/03/05 05:00 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well I have used this method with varying degrees of success -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4247663

But I have discovered the key to successful extraction and by crikey it works alright - when performing ALL pouring/decanting/filtering, do this with the most care and patience not to agitate the water AT ALL so not to introduce any air in the mixture - for example, when adding the water to the shroom material, do it by slowly pouring it down the SIDE of the container, thus reducing OXIDATION of the active components. Then when filtering out the material, again do this running the liquid down the EDGE of the final container it will be stored in, again to introduce as LITTLE air as possible. The clearer your final solution colour is the better (it will be a little brown from the spores, but if you let that sit for an hour you will see the true colour of the liquid and the spores settled at the bottom). The more blue the solution you ended up with, the worse the extraction was done. I found when doing the initial soak with luke warm water was fine, but Im sure you could use cold water with equal success, I just think the warm water kicks things off a bit better. Also, when stirring the solution, be careful again to introduce as little air as possible. When transporting the final solution, care must be taken not to shake it whatsoever. Finally, when storing, the container should be light proof, if not should be put in a black plastic bag (when using a clear plastic bottle for example). I found this works a treat.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: Ascension]
    #4372660 - 07/05/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I've never gotten anything other than goo with an a/b extraction.


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OfflineSO0PA_HER0
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Re: psilocybin/psilocin extraction... a myth? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4374047 - 07/06/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

since everyone on here is way fucking smarter than me . can someone help me with lsa extraction . it would make my week . ! i love reading about this . and wish i was schooled well enough to be able to do the shit you guys do . !


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Amazon Shop for: Magnetic Stirrer

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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