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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4332484 - 06/24/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Time is independant of life...or there would still be no universe because without time it would never have formed. It has been around for billions of years before we were here.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4332525 - 06/24/05 01:15 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"Its been around for billions of years"

Who is it that is creating the measurements? Time is purely a product of conceptual thinking, and so are all the silly labels that we project onto infinte space.


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Offlinerowleyxx9
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4332564 - 06/24/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Of course it does.

I look at the clock and it says 3:20.

I look away.

I look back and it's 3:24.

BOOM! A job has been created!

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4332597 - 06/24/05 01:30 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If a chain of events is set into motion before I die...it will continue. That is an expression of time. We may have measurements that are our own, but time exists no matter whether measurements are used or not. Science tells us this. That does not mean that our "concept" of time IS time....time is time. Be careful you do not become so philisophical that you miss the forest for the trees.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4332962 - 06/24/05 03:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If every siutation were merley an illusory manifestation of your own mind. Then when you die, does this chain of events really still happen? Or is it merely an afterthought the dying state? That is an experession of the illusion of time. Time is only a measure, its not that we are measuring some ineffeable universal substance called time.

Science tells us that things arise and pass away, that all phenomena is contanlty in a state if flux. But this does not represent time, this is just simply, what it is, no more labels of duration need to be attached, and when we try to measure the duration, the measurement in themselves become the concepts of time, through the thinking mind, which we project onto empty space. Its very easy to say something like "Oh Time is Time without the need for conceptual measurement", but this sounds like complete nonsense now does'nt it? This is becuase there is no such unknowable thing called "time" that is beyond conceptual thinking.

I see the forest, i see the tree's, but when i examine the forest, there is no independant, self-existing thing that i can pinpoint and say "This is forest", neither is there any independant, self-existing thing that i can pinpoint and say "This is tree", without using some delusionally vague conceptual notions. Science tells us this.

Everything arises in dependance upon conceptual thinking.


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Edited by Sinbad (06/24/05 03:37 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4333026 - 06/24/05 03:39 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If every siutation i merley an illusory manifesttaion of your own mind. Then when you die, does this chain of events really still happen?
_____________________________________________________________________

This is a good point. I have wondered the same thing. If I as a dreamer awaken, what happened to the dream and it's manifestation? Time may not exist then. Only the ever present now. :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/24/05 03:40 PM)

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OfflineUnit_134679
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: BleaK]
    #4333045 - 06/24/05 03:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
time is likely a manifestation of consciousness.




Well put, makes sense


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Seuss]
    #4333248 - 06/24/05 04:33 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That's just not so. Ask someone truly versed in advanced physics: astrophysicists, cosmologists, theoretical physicists, etc. Space is not a dimension separate from time, and there was to space, no extension prior to the Big Bang. Just because you cannot conceive the inconceivable doesn't negate this. There is no image of this because every image has dimension. A Singularity is Zero dimension. Not until infinite radii extend from a mathematical point, omnidirectionally, is there extension and form.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4333294 - 06/24/05 04:46 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Saying that time is dependant on conciousness is like saying that if you where not there to experience something then it did not happen. I wasn't here for the revolutionary war, but I have seen strong evidence that it occurred. To think otherwise is very egocentric...I know you Buddhist types hate ego so much...well think about that. As Markosthegnostic stated time and space are linked.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4333320 - 06/24/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Of course I take your point Hue, but, I could see you dreaming that the civil war took place. When I dream I can fly or that I am back in my childhood I believe it. When I awaken I see that it was illusion. I'm not saying I believe this but I can't say for sure that it couldn't be true. :shrug: Of course, I'm a layman when it comes to critical thinking. :grin:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335150 - 06/25/05 04:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Icelander basically has illustrated the point nicely. IF things arent real to begin with, then how do you know the revolutionary war took actaully took place? To think like this is'nt egocentric, its questioning the very nature of our reality. When i go to sleep and dream, the dream seems very rel, and i expereince all kinds of emotions due to my taking it as real, my family might die, or wars and revolutions mights happen, but when i wake up, i realizae that it was all just a dream, and none of it really occured anywhere else but in my mind.

As a Buddhist, i dont hate "ego", im just not sure is if there even exists a self-existing entity called 'ego' at all. What makes you so sure?


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Edited by Sinbad (06/25/05 05:06 AM)

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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4335617 - 06/25/05 10:57 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

does life exist without time?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4335620 - 06/25/05 10:58 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

nope


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4338312 - 06/26/05 01:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That's like saying "how do we know that WWII took place?".... There are people around to tell the tale and evidence to prove it took place.


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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OfflineDig_a_Pony
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4338564 - 06/26/05 05:41 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Time exists whether we give it meaning or not. This is becuase it is a concept.


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...
We can have some more
Nature is a whore
Bruises on the fruit
Tender age in bloom


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4338573 - 06/26/05 05:46 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

But are these people, or any such "evidence", any more real, than anything else? :lol:  :eek:


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OfflineDig_a_Pony
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4338574 - 06/26/05 05:47 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

WHY is cheese YELLOW???


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...
We can have some more
Nature is a whore
Bruises on the fruit
Tender age in bloom


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Dig_a_Pony]
    #4338576 - 06/26/05 05:48 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I could tell you, but then id have to kill you! :lol:


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: Dig_a_Pony]
    #4338579 - 06/26/05 05:49 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Time exists for those who take life seriously.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.

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OfflineDig_a_Pony
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Re: Does time exist without life? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #4338581 - 06/26/05 05:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

(concept of)Time can fade with pain and mental problems, emotional problems too.
I meant in a bigger than individual subjective way. Individuals give a concept to something bigger than themselves, they forget about it, it may not play a typical role in their lives but it still exists.


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...
We can have some more
Nature is a whore
Bruises on the fruit
Tender age in bloom


Edited by Dig_a_Pony (06/26/05 05:54 AM)

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