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OfflineCeeThruMeer
Aztek GoatBecoming Eagle

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 396
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: Veritas]
    #4328858 - 06/23/05 02:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I agree that there is nothing "subtle" about the messages females (and males, to an increasing extent) are receiving.  So much of it is product-driven!  Our economy is based on the perception of personal lack, and where that perception does not exist-it is programmed in!

Think about this: the gorgeous women who appear in magazines represent a physical "package" that is present in less than 1% of the women in the world.  They are tall, slim, fit, young, and invest large amounts of time and money in staying that way.  Yet even with all these "resources" at their disposal, their images are digitally enhanced to increase their appearance of perfection.  The resulting images do not represent any humans present in nature.  You could more accurately describe them as art than photographs.

To further bolster the power of these images, men's magazines feature these digitally enhanced beauties.  Boys grow up masturbating to computer creations, and their sexual response may become fixated on images of perfection.  Since heterosexual women want to be loved by men, they will strive to attain the ideal.  Their strivings create an unending demand for self-improvement products and services.

Personally, I am sickened and frustrated by this system.



Great fucking post!  :frown:  :thumbup:


--------------------
"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4328981 - 06/23/05 02:56 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
"be natural" is normalization along a cultural ideal too
it is a cultural imperative
nature is a cultural image

is foot-binding unnatural? i believe we are part of nature. but i still think it's wrong, because of the suffering it causes.




how is natural look a cultural image? If you don't do anything to your body, and live in a cave, you naturally get that look, it does not depend on you being a part of culture


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: Veritas]
    #4328996 - 06/23/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I agree that there is nothing "subtle" about the messages females (and males, to an increasing extent) are receiving. So much of it is product-driven! Our economy is based on the perception of personal lack, and where that perception does not exist-it is programmed in!

Think about this: the gorgeous women who appear in magazines represent a physical "package" that is present in less than 1% of the women in the world. They are tall, slim, fit, young, and invest large amounts of time and money in staying that way. Yet even with all these "resources" at their disposal, their images are digitally enhanced to increase their appearance of perfection. The resulting images do not represent any humans present in nature. You could more accurately describe them as art than photographs.

To further bolster the power of these images, men's magazines feature these digitally enhanced beauties. Boys grow up masturbating to computer creations, and their sexual response may become fixated on images of perfection. Since heterosexual women want to be loved by men, they will strive to attain the ideal. Their strivings create an unending demand for self-improvement products and services.

Personally, I am sickened and frustrated by this system.




so true, the original photos look nothing like the retouched versions. Before computers there was airbrush and paint, now it's digital, but it is always miles away from the original photo


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4329029 - 06/23/05 03:10 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

(btw i totally agree with veritas' post.)

regarding nature:
some people think being natural is not shaving their armpits
some people think it means leaving the world and being a farmer
some people think you go into nature like yellowstone national park (an enclosed area signifying nature to them)

some people think doing nothing is natural
some people think competition is survival of the fittest is nature
some people think living in a cave makes you natural
how about a hut? how about under some trees? do you hunt with weapons? set traps? starve cause you only use bare hands even though nature didnt evolve us to hunt this way?
some people think mocossins (sp) are natural, some people feet
some people think not cooking your food is natural
some people think that killing is natural

or maybe catatonia is natural since youre really doing nothing
is building a fire natural? or is that primitive caveman technology human culture?
is bathing natural?
you say natural look- how about cutting hair? when to cut hair? how to cut it? different for men and women? to bathe? to not bathe? how often to bathe? bathe in a river, bathe in a shower, an ocean, in the rain? cut your fingernails? dreds? piercings? tattoos? stand up straight? relax? cross legs when you sit?

you're saying there's a zero point, i'm saying that zero point is a one possible choice, and theyre all choices


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4329114 - 06/23/05 03:35 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

this has nothing to do with what we are talking about, I'm talking about the way you look, not what you do


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4329258 - 06/23/05 04:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

i'm saying that a natural look is based on a notion of nature.  and that notion is a cultural invention.

i hear you saying let's go back to our genes.  i'm saying our genes make us invent new ways to appear, we're already back.  not bathing is deliberate.  dreds are deliberate.  unibrows are deliberate.  just like high heels.

i have no problem with these things.  i disagree with the concept of nature as separate from culture, that's all.  and so, i disagree that a natural look is intrinsically more special than a normal look by virtue of being "natural".

i think a natural look is better because it implies less suffering.  that part of what i hear you saying i agree with.

i'm just saying there's nothing atavistic about a so-called natural look.

i felt like some debate.  if you still think my posts are off topic- ill stop.  :peace:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4329310 - 06/23/05 04:43 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

then in your opinion, which look is not deliberate but is the look a human would have if he never changed anything about his body?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: natural image of human beings [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4329346 - 06/23/05 04:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

-is washing unnatural? do you advocate never washing?

-i'm saying that not cutting hair (for example) is a choice. it's like two alternate universes open up, one with cut hair, and one with uncut hair. mr natural chooses the uncut hair, but it's still a choice. therefore deliberate. that's the sense of choice/deliberation i mean.

-furthermore why do we say, let's not cut our hair? because we have uncut hair in our culture, in our TVs, our books, our history (hippies) etc. its an image people wilfully adopt just like that of the woman walking down the street with high heels.

personally i think its part of the ideal in western of culture of, let's be anti-western. but being anti-western is part of what it means to be western.

-are you implying walking is unnatural since that changes the orientation of the body?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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