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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: alsey]
    #4321614 - 06/21/05 05:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

alsey said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
membranes that spontaneously form out of nothing

And you're back where you started.  :tongue:




yes, exactly. i.e. i answered the question.

the universe has either existed forever (observable evidence does not support this), or it was formed spontaneously. there are no other possibilities.





i disagree.
observable evidence shows that the big bang may have happend. which would explain the movment of the different bodies that makeup the galaxy.

it does not explain how the big bang happend. it does not imply even that there was nothing before the big bang.
the big bang could very well have been one of many bangs that happend "inside" a precluding universe.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Offlineprimal
undefined

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 13
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: rickjames86]
    #4321990 - 06/21/05 06:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The universe has no age.
The universe contains no moments.
The universe has no beginning.
The universe was not created.
The universe has no initial conditions.
The universe cannot be measured.
The universe cannot be distinguished from "nothing."
The universe cannot really be said to "exist."

And the funny thing is, all of this is staring us RIGHT IN THE FACE. But think how you want.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: What started it all? [Re: rickjames86]
    #4322008 - 06/21/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Considering what happened before creation of our universe is pointless since the laws of our universe did not exist.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What started it all? [Re: BleaK]
    #4322034 - 06/21/05 06:51 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

something cannot come from nothing.

Although they don't stay around long, virtual particles in the Faynman Diagrams of Quantum Mechanics do appear to come from nothing.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What started it all? [Re: Diploid]
    #4322483 - 06/21/05 09:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Those particles last as long as Diploid on a romp with a long-legged Florida woman.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What started it all? [Re: Swami]
    #4322574 - 06/21/05 09:43 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Not true! I perform on the order of nanoseconds; virtual particles only picoseconds. So there! :sperm:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: Diploid]
    #4323547 - 06/22/05 01:28 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
something cannot come from nothing.

Although they don't stay around long, virtual particles in the Faynman Diagrams of Quantum Mechanics do appear to come from nothing.




notice i put the phrase "appear to" in bold.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

Edited by BleaK (06/22/05 01:33 AM)

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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: BleaK]
    #4323624 - 06/22/05 02:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Why do we think, universes limitations are the limitations that are known to us ?
I think universe as a part of some vast multidimensional 'thing', where sometimes energies cross the boarders of these dimensions.
So it is no problem to interpret, that from out limited dimensional view it appears as if the beginning of our universe started out of nothing. In fact there simply appeared some interdimensional energy-shift, which inflated some kind of 'separate dimension-bubble', known as universe to us.

:grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4323636 - 06/22/05 02:30 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Why do we think, universes limitations are the limitations that are known to us ?
I think universe as a part of some vast multidimensional 'thing', where sometimes energies cross the boarders of these dimensions.
So it is no problem to interpret, that from out limited dimensional view it appears as if the beginning of our universe started out of nothing. In fact there simply appeared some interdimensional energy-shift, which inflated some kind of 'separate dimension-bubble', known as universe to us.

:grin:




i coverd this already.
from earlier in the post
"it does not explain how the big bang happend. it does not imply even that there was nothing before the big bang.
the big bang could very well have been one of many bangs that happend "inside" a precluding universe."


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: What started it all? [Re: BleaK]
    #4323991 - 06/22/05 08:24 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So then, I think the same as you and don't see the problem...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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