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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,008
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4320239 - 06/21/05 10:24 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
Look, I like to consider myself an artist/inventor. I write music, I do graphic design, and I occasionally code software. Never would I be offended if someone "stole" my ideas or work, even to use for profit. I would be flattered.




after a bit of flattery, you find it only contributes to feeding the kids if you have copyright benefits and a good marketing approach that can use the flattery to happy ends.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4320260 - 06/21/05 10:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If I infringe on a copyright by publishing an excerpt from a book without the author's permission

Permission from the author is not required for fair use, as in an excerpt from a book.

From my web site where I insist that anyone using my material ask for permission first:

Copyright law secures for the creator of a creative work the exclusive right to control who can make copies or derivative works from the original creation.

The Berne copyright convention, which almost all nations have signed, says that every creative work is copyrighted the moment it is fixed in tangible form. No explicit notice of copyright is required, though it helps legal cases, and the copyright is good for 50 years after the creator's death.

Copyright law allows for something called "Fair Use" which permits strictly limited use of copyrighted works without explicit permission. Fair-use is what permits a book reviewer to quote brief passages from the book being reviewed without asking for permission. Any broader use of the original copyrighted work requires explicit permission from the owner.

Therefore, since I created the words, layout, images, and other components on this Web site (or asked the original creator for permission to us it), I own all the original work here and you have no right to reproduce it (except for "fair-use") without my explicit permission.

If you'd like to use, for other than "fair-use" purposes, any of the words, pictures, layout, or other components of this Web site for non-profit or personal use, I may grant you free permission to do so, but you must ask me first. Please do me that courtesy before using any of this material.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4320348 - 06/21/05 10:54 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Look, I like to consider myself an artist/inventor. I write music, I do graphic design, and I occasionally code software. Never would I be offended if someone "stole" my ideas or work, even to use for profit. I would be flattered."

Would you be equally flattered if someone came into your house and stole all the things you don't really own?  :rolleyes:


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: Diploid]
    #4320367 - 06/21/05 11:00 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I was trying to refer to something larger than fair use, so let me rephrase my question. If I copy an entire book without the author or publisher's permission, how is that wrong from an ethical point of view?

This question is for anyone, btw.

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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4320372 - 06/21/05 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

This point was already addressed. See above.

Physical possessions are quite different from intanglible ideas, thoughts, and concepts.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4320385 - 06/21/05 11:06 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

moog,

Since you bring up ethics, which is a part of philosophy and argued with logic, let's walk through the logic of your position step by step.

I'll start with a question:

If I sell you a book I wrote under the condition that you not reproduce it, and you promise to abide by the agreement, is it then ethical for you to break your word and reproduce it anyway?

Hint, this is a yes/no question.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4320474 - 06/21/05 11:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Physical possessions are quite different from intanglible ideas, thoughts and concepts."

Since you are "flattered" by having others take your intellectual property for free and even profit from it while you get nothing, is it illogical to assume you would not be equally flattered at having your car or furniture stolen?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: Diploid]
    #4320670 - 06/21/05 12:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Diploid, if I bought it according to that agreement, I would hold up that agreement. I see where you're going with this, and I agree with you. Once you buy the book, you're making that agreement and it's unethical to go against it.

But what if I didn't buy the book? What if, for example, I borrowed it from someone, scanned it into a computer, and then shared it online? Or what if I found a copy of that book online made by someone else, and I downloaded it, and then proceeded to share it with other people on a p2p app...

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4321116 - 06/21/05 02:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Alright, logic part 2.

You agree that it's unethical for the purchaser of the book to copy it as he promised not to upon purchase.

A quick lemma:

Is it ethical to purchase known stolen goods? And if not, why not?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: selfishness, creativity, and copyright [Re: moog]
    #4321494 - 06/21/05 04:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Artists have to eat and pay bills too, ya know..... :wink:

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