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Offlineivi
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Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft
    #4319925 - 06/21/05 10:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

A leading Linux figure, Daniel Robbins, the founder of Gentoo Linux and its former chief architect, has announced that he has accepted a position at Microsoft Corp.

In a brief note to the Gentoo Foundation Inc. community, Robbins said he was leaving Gentoo and that he will be "helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects."

Microsoft confirmed that Robbins began work at Microsoft's campus in Redmond, Wash., on May 23. Sources at Microsoft said Robbins is working with Bill Hilf.

Hilf is Microsoft's lead program manager for its Platform Strategy organization. There, he leads Microsoft's Linux and Open Source Software technology group. Before coming to Microsoft, Hilf drove IBM's Linux technical strategy for its emerging and competitive markets organization. Robbins' title is program manager for the Platform Strategy team.

Gentoo Linux is one of the most popular Linux distributions. Its non-commercial status, as well as its reputation as a bleeding-edge distribution, has largely kept it out of the enterprise.

Unlike most distributions, like Red Hat Inc.'s RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Gentoo is "from source" distribution.

That means it ships with a tool called Portage that lets users acquire and update software by downloading source code and compiling applications to suit their particular needs. Robbins based Portage on FreeBSD's Ports tool.

Portage uses "Ebuild" scripts for software packaging. An Ebuild file contains all the information required to download, unpack, compile and install a set of source-code programs, and to perform any optional preinstall/post-install/removal or configuration steps. Ebuild scripts are written as Unix/Linux bash shell programs.

This approach has been much admired in the open-source community.

"[Robbins'] approach was technically superior to the other distros in its fundamental approach. It was the right approach," said Hans Reiser, creator of ReiserFS (Reiser File System), the default file system in such popular Linux distributions as SuSE, Linspire and Xandros.

Robbins had been moving away from his distribution for some time. In April 2004, he surprised the Gentoo community by resigning from development responsibilities and his role as chief architect for Gentoo.

At that time, he also began setting up the non-profit Gentoo Foundation, which now runs Gentoo development.

Before joining Microsoft, Robbins finalized the transfer of Gentoo's intellectual property, essentially Ebuilds copyrights and other software, as well as soon-to-be trademarked Gentoo logos to the Foundation.


http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1827841,00.asp


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: ivi]
    #4320094 - 06/21/05 11:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

lame.

That means it ships with a tool called Portage that lets users acquire and update software by downloading source code and compiling applications to suit their particular needs. Robbins based Portage on FreeBSD's Ports tool.

Portage uses "Ebuild" scripts for software packaging. An Ebuild file contains all the information required to download, unpack, compile and install a set of source-code programs, and to perform any optional preinstall/post-install/removal or configuration steps. Ebuild scripts are written as Unix/Linux bash shell programs.

This approach has been much admired in the open-source community.


and what are they talking about here? is portage just a package manager or what? there are tons of those, and debians built-in apt-get is (in my opinion) better than any external package mangager...


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Krishna]
    #4320280 - 06/21/05 12:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

in gentoo, you compile from source for your specific machine - gentoo doesnt use packages.

maybe this dude will help microsoft be less...microsoft. maybe he just cashed in. maybe both.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Vvellum]
    #4320721 - 06/21/05 03:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ah i see, thanks for the clarification, bi0.

what's the benefit there, compiling from source vs using a package?


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Krishna]
    #4321577 - 06/21/05 07:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

when you set up gentoo, you set it up exactly for your system. you set all your USE flags, cflags, etc. so, if you set it up with your exact processor, using gnome and not kde, using dvd, etc, it will compile just for that. when you install a binary, everything is included in that, which means you get bloat that you will never use and it takes longer to launch aps.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: automan]
    #4322693 - 06/22/05 12:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

good description.

haing used apt and portage i'd have to say that there is a tie. both are beautiful in their own right. portage can be a bit more finnicky but easy enough to goad into working if you have even a passing knowledge of how an ebuild is designed. IOW, ebuilds can become outdated rather overnight if a server goes down or changes (never had that issue with apt).

Considering the fact that i just had to make like 14 spelling corrections i'll call it a night... a long sexy night, preferably...


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: ivi]
    #4323769 - 06/22/05 06:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

In a brief note to the Gentoo Foundation Inc. community, Robbins said he was leaving Gentoo and that he will be "helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects."




Remember Micro$ofts motto: "Embrace and destroy" I suspect this is a new front on the battle against open source software. Micro$oft has a big enough budget that they can hire away the most active open source developers to prevent them from writing open source code... plus they get good developers as a bonus for their own buggy software.

It is sad to see Daniel Robbins sell out. Microsoft tried really hard to hire me once, but I kept refusing. To this day I am still not sure I made the correct choice. I am glad that I stood up for what I beleive in, but when I look at my bank account I sure wonder what life would have been like had I accepted the insane sallery they offered.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Krishna]
    #4325714 - 06/22/05 06:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Portage is a very good package manager...probably the best ever made.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Seuss]
    #4325724 - 06/22/05 06:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I hate MS myself, but Mr. Robbins would be a fool to turn down the job. It is also possible that with his influence MS might finally do something innovative...though I think they are already too far gone.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinenookjohn
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4325731 - 06/22/05 06:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

To be quite honest, not very leading.

I've been working on Linux since 1994 and I've barely heard of him. I'm sure he's a bright guy but it's not like this is a major coup for Microsoft.

EDIT: I recently turned down a job offer from Microsoft citing my personal ethical standards.


Edited by tourist (06/22/05 06:39 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: debianlinux]
    #4325732 - 06/22/05 06:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have broken apt with an apt-get upgrade before...I have never broken portage.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: nookjohn]
    #4325739 - 06/22/05 06:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you didn't know about Gentoo then you been hiding in a closet....linux-wise.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4331391 - 06/24/05 07:11 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

> It is also possible that with his influence MS might finally do something innovative...

Many people have made the exact same mistake you are making. Billions of dollars have been lost because of this mistake. Lives have been ruined because of this mistake. I cannot stress enough:

Remember Micro$ofts motto: "Embrace and destroy"

The ONLY reason Micro$oft does anything is for profit. They will buy up the most amazing innovations in programming and shelve them just so that the competition doesn't have the technology. Everybody suffers because of this. Micro$oft has brought more harm to the computing industry than all other factors combined. They are the essence of evil with respect to computer science.

Trust me, I have seen it before again and again and again. IBM, Apple, Novell, Corel, Sun, Borland and many many others all made the mistake of thinking that Micro$oft would play fair... and each got raped by Micro$oft because of that trust. If you think Micro$oft has dicided to all of the sudden change the way they do business after twenty years, to play nice with others, then you are sadly mistaken.

> I hate MS myself, but Mr. Robbins would be a fool to turn down the job.

I believe his a fool for taking it... at least based on his statements. He was played by Micro$oft, nothing more. I hope he read the fine print really carefully before he signed on for the job. There are small lines in there that read in cryptic lawyer speak that say things like "By working for Micro$oft, anything that you produce is Micro$oft propietary property." It doesn't matter if you are working on something on the side, on your own computer, with your own OS, in your own home... it still belongs to Micro$oft. They also sneak in those lifetime non-compete's... they may not stand up in court, but Micro$oft attacks your new employers with their attack lawyers... your new employer quickly fires you because they cannot afford the legal costs to keep you. There are just a few examples... there are many more. Again, a fool for signing on...

> EDIT: I recently turned down a job offer from Microsoft citing my personal ethical standards.

I'm not alone then. Thanks! I'm glad that there are others out that that can see through the forest.

> Portage is a very good package manager...probably the best ever made.

I would have to agree.

Edit: If he signed the same contract they offered me... and he does even one bug fix on portage or changes a single line of code... then portage becomes Microsoft's property (assuming he currently retains the copyright to the code).


Edited by Seuss (06/24/05 07:16 AM)


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Seuss]
    #4331548 - 06/24/05 09:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

they wont own portage. he signed over the copyrights to the gentoo foundation... for this very reason, i bet.

seuss, which distro do you use?


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: automan]
    #4331557 - 06/24/05 10:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

thanks for the info! i'm relatively new (2 yrs or so) to linux, and have only used mandrake (in the past) and debian (currently).. one of these days i'll have to take some time to learn the pros-and-cons with them all


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Krishna]
    #4331583 - 06/24/05 10:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

try gentoo, i think you will be happily surprised. the install process forces people to learn command line usage and arguements. gentoo was the first linux distro i ever used. the setup takes quite a while, but i think portage and customization to particular systems makes it well worth while.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: automan]
    #4331934 - 06/24/05 12:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

> seuss, which distro do you use?

Solaris 10 by Sun Microsystems based on SYS-V Unix by AT&T is my primary. I just started playing with Gentoo a few months ago, but it is the only Linux distribution I would use, personally. I would not recommend Gentoo for anybody that doesn't enjoy playing with the nitty-gritty of the OS. If you want to sit down and start using a computer without having to think, then Gentoo probably isn't the distribution to use.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4332189 - 06/24/05 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I have broken apt with an apt-get upgrade before...I have never broken portage.




have you never run across a busted ebuild despite emerge sync? it can be particulalrly frustrating to portage noobs when the very installation of the system requires numerous ebuilds and some point to missing sources.


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Invisiblesherm
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: debianlinux]
    #4332331 - 06/24/05 02:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yes sir it can


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Former Gentoo Linux Architect Moves to Microsoft [Re: debianlinux]
    #4333036 - 06/24/05 05:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

debianlinux said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I have broken apt with an apt-get upgrade before...I have never broken portage.




have you never run across a busted ebuild despite emerge sync? it can be particulalrly frustrating to portage noobs when the very installation of the system requires numerous ebuilds and some point to missing sources.




the only real problem i have run across is when a checksum doesnt match so the compile stops. but that is usually fixable by specifying a different portage mirror.

usually if there is a problem with an ebuild, itself, someone posts about it ont he forums and it is fixed in less than a day.


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