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Offlinelemunhed
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Registered: 05/12/03
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Casing layers: Theory and application
    #4317538 - 06/20/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I know that the casing layer is an important part of any cultivation process, but lately I have been wondering what actual effect thickness of casing layer has on flushes. My friend currently has 3 casings that are popcorn cased with 60/40 coir + verm and they are pinning like crazy, and appear to be healthy despite the 1/4" casing layer, deliberately used on them for the purpose of experimentation. He has more batches of extra thick casings coming along, to compare the results.

My friend has been thinking about the potential ramifications of using a thin casing layer and has come up with the following: possible lower flush weight due to not enough moisture, slower maturation time due to not enough moisture, bad pin set due to less than ideal microclimate, greater chance of overlay due to drying out, fewer flushes due to less moisture.

So far the casings he has seem to be maturing a bit slowly, but if they do make it to maturity then the yield will be good as there are very few aborts and a robust pinset, only time will tell.

And a final question, has anyone ever had a healthy pinset that just stalled halfway through maturation? My friends casings pinned really healthily, but the mushies seem to be growing so slowly he is wondering if they have enough moisture to plump up... other than this possibility though it seems that there may not be as big a benefit to thick ass casing layers as he formerly thought. I guess the experiment will have to run a few more weeks....


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You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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Offlineprefloppro
Last Call
Registered: 05/29/05
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: lemunhed]
    #4317542 - 06/20/05 05:29 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Why post two times with the same basic question? The pros will get to your question in a little bit, I am sure of it. Have patience.


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Offlinelemunhed
The hustler'shustler

Registered: 05/12/03
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: prefloppro]
    #4317826 - 06/20/05 06:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Its a different question. One of my posts is directly related to my friends grow, and possible reasons for a slow maturation time in his specific scenario (one of which could be the casing layer). This question is a more general one about casing, and is not concerned as much with my friends results as much as it is with the general theory vs. real world results of casing depth. However in all fairness, if this question were answered it could potentially answer my other question.


--------------------
You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: lemunhed]
    #4318111 - 06/20/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Have you ever read The Mushroom Cultivator by Stamet's ?
It has a lot of information on what you are looking for. A lot of the results from such tests as you and your friend are performing.
Good Luck.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


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Offlinelemunhed
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Registered: 05/12/03
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: HippieChick]
    #4318765 - 06/20/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I have read excerps although I haven't actually read the whole book cover to cover. Stamets recommends 1 inch casing layer MINIMUM from what I understand, which although par for the course when doing massive spawn runs with agaricus, might not be the best cost/benefit ratio in terms of time for smaller scale operations. I need to order that book though none the less.


--------------------
You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: lemunhed]
    #4318773 - 06/20/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

stamets also recomends that the casing be much wetter then most of you use


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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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OfflineKalix
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: tahoe]
    #4318789 - 06/20/05 11:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

He actually say 3/4 inch for psilocybian mush.. 1 In is what he recommends for Agaricus...


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: Kalix]
    #4319304 - 06/21/05 01:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I find the part were he recommends deep sratching to get a massive fast even pinset interesting.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: HippieChick]
    #4319413 - 06/21/05 02:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In my experience with casings, when a mycelium is strong, it tears through an inch of casing in a about 5 days. When it's weak, it never gets through even 1/2 inch until mold comes. By "weak" I don't mean contaminated or anything like that--that's just plain SICK. Weak means a mycelium that doesn't fruit well, is super slow, or doesn't form rhizomorphs for some reason. Often weakened mycelium is a sign of impending mold problems brewing under the surface; other times its just bad luck with your spores making a poor fruiting strain. When mycelium weakens or is week for whatever reason and the casing colonization is poor, the pin sets is never spectacular. I see these poor pinsets very often in pictures posted around here. On the other hand, once you do get a strong mycelium, it will pin like crazy. You can figure HUNDREDS of pins per square foot. When you find it, you should make a liquid culture and store it.

As for depth, I've gone both very thin and very thick. With a thicker casing, one doesn't need to worry about misting so much during the maturation. On the other hand, a thinner casing is more likely to colonize fully--if not overlay--and be more resistant to contamination in an overly humid fruiting chamber, which is common unless one mixes input air with the cool mist via an adjustable valve or fan as Stamets recommends.

If you are running a thin casing, keep your RH above 90% when the fruits are maturing (you might need to kick it down to 87% before you see pins to get out of the vegetaive growth), and if you really get a heavy flush, you'll need to mist. A light mist directly on the fruiting bodies does not hurt them in my experience. A heavy mist, though, can kill a tiny pin, so watch your mist droplet size and quantity.


Edited by Blue Helix (06/21/05 02:16 AM)


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: lemunhed]
    #4319646 - 06/21/05 05:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

the general rule of thumb for cubes. is, 1/4" casing for every 1" of substrate, up to 1".
so, if the substrate is 2" deep, use 1/2" of casing.
4" of substrate, is said to be the point of diminishing return .


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Offlinelemunhed
The hustler'shustler

Registered: 05/12/03
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Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: deanofmean]
    #4320029 - 06/21/05 11:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hippie chick, what does stamets say about deep scratching to get an even pinset? I was thinking about that myself, overcasing, giving it a week then scratching some off certain parts... as long as you don't go into the myc itself I couldn't see that hurting the casing too much. It would certainly give you the ultimate control over where your casing would pin.


--------------------
You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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Offlinelemunhed
The hustler'shustler

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 775
Loc: Ur moms house
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Casing layers: Theory and application [Re: lemunhed]
    #4322044 - 06/21/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I went out and got TMC. Hells yeah, now i have to read it...


--------------------
You're pompeius, aren't you? I'll make a pompeian of you unless you hold your toungue!

-Tiberius Claudius Nero


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