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Offlineheadset
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Psilocybin is a poison
    #4315302 - 06/19/05 11:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, its not...

Can someone provide me some links to prove an argument.

Disregard if you think this is a waste of pub space.


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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,070
Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315310 - 06/19/05 11:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

poi?son Pronunciation (poizn)
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal.

Psilocybin dosent cause illness or death or injury.  Some would say that the trip is "destructive" so I suppose it all depends on your point of view.

One man's poisen is another's pleasure.

:mushroom2:


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Offlinekeepontruckin
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: DieCommie]
    #4315314 - 06/19/05 11:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
It's so far out the way out is in
George Harrison


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Offlinederyl
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315316 - 06/19/05 11:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1527.htm

Psilocybin: Psilocybin and psilocin are elaborated by a number of mushroom genera, including Psilocybe, Panaeolus, Gymnopilus, Copelandia, Conocybe, Psathyrella, and Pluteus. They are serotonin (5-HT2) agonists, and ingestion of psilocin-containing mushrooms results in psychedelic effects similar to those of lysergic acid (LSD). These mushrooms are ingested voluntarily for their psychoactive properties, and users seldom present for medical care.

Psilocybin poisoning: The onset of hallucinations usually is rapid, and the effects generally subside within 2 hours. Poisoning by these mushrooms rarely is fatal in adults and may be distinguished from ibotenic acid poisoning by the absence of drowsiness or coma. The most severe cases of psilocybin poisoning occur in small children, in whom large doses may cause hallucinations accompanied by fever, convulsions, coma, and death.

this dosent make much sense :confused:


Edited by deryl (06/19/05 11:45 PM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315321 - 06/19/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Who said it was a poison?


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Offlineheadset
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: niteowl]
    #4315339 - 06/19/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"the chemicals in mushrooms are a defense mechanism much like quills on a cactus. those chemicals usually kill or paralyze... there are a limited amount that are "magic""


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315340 - 06/19/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's a poison if you consider water to be a poison.


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OfflineJeeLiX
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #4315367 - 06/20/05 12:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, it is a poison. It is how the mushrooms defend themselves. Say a goat sees some big shrooms, it goes over to them and eats them. Then later it starts to trip the fuck out, it is going to scare the shit out of the goat and it will remember not to eat those mushrooms. If it has the mental capacity to remember...


--------------------
"If you don't stand up for somethin, you'll fall for anything." Martin L. King


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OfflineJeeLiX
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315378 - 06/20/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

poi?son (poizn)
n.

A substance taken internally or applied externally that is injurious to health or dangerous to life.
A chemical substance that inhibits another substance or a reaction.

This is how the shrooms make us trip is it not??

I have forgotten alot about how psychedelics work, though so maybee not.


--------------------
"If you don't stand up for somethin, you'll fall for anything." Martin L. King


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315390 - 06/20/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cows have been seen eating mushrooms, and they come back for more, it's not a poison.


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Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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OfflineJeeLiX
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: gdman]
    #4315392 - 06/20/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cows aren't the smartest animals gd... They gladly walk into the slaughter house only to be killed. They probably dont even realie they are tripping, or it might not effect them.


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"If you don't stand up for somethin, you'll fall for anything." Martin L. King


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315396 - 06/20/05 12:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's not necessarily true. We don't know exactly why mushrooms have psilocybin.

For example, I've read that some cacti contain mescaline as a way to protect against nitrogen burns. Psilocybin is a rather odd chemical to develop to protect a mushroom from being eaten, as opposed to lethal poisons that are easier to manufacture.

But it's always a possibility. One must keep in mind that there are other ones than protection though, and psilocybin isn't really your stereotypical protection chemical. Would opiates create morphine and related chemicals for protection? Did marijuana create THC for protection? If you don't jump to conclusions about these two, why do so about mushrooms?


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OfflineJeeLiX
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315402 - 06/20/05 12:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Whenever I was coming up on a trip of shrooms I felt as if my body had been poisoned. Sometimes it resulted in me throwing up, the bodys natural reaction to being poisoned. Even if you inject a harmfull chemical into your bloodstream the bodys natural reaction is to throw it up..


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"If you don't stand up for somethin, you'll fall for anything." Martin L. King


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315416 - 06/20/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I beg to differ about cows, they have brains, I'm sure they are quite altered. MJshroomer has observed rats, and even ants become intoxicated after eating mushrooms.

Truth be told, we don't know why mushrooms produce psilocin, if it's a poison, it's not very effective at deterring organisms. Hell, look at us, not only do we seek them in the wild, we have found ways to cultivate them, solely for the psilocin. Don't think we are all that different from the rest of the animal kingdom. Psilocin might be present in mushrooms by pure coincidence, or maybe it was something produced to encourage the spread of the species. Who knows?


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: JeeLiX]
    #4315419 - 06/20/05 12:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JeeLiX said:
Cows aren't the smartest animals gd... They gladly walk into the slaughter house only to be killed. They probably dont even realie they are tripping, or it might not effect them.




Well if you're saying only the dumb animals eat mushrooms, what about the smartest animals... humans? :smirk:


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315426 - 06/20/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Everything is poisonous in extreme doses.


Oxygen is more poisonous than Psilocybin tho.


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OfflineJeeLiX
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: gdman]
    #4315428 - 06/20/05 12:22 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That is also true, maybee it was not an effective "poison" in the sense that it hurt its predators. But it was effective in the sense that the species kept producing it because it was effective at encouraging the survival of the species. Dont now if that made sense..


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"If you don't stand up for somethin, you'll fall for anything." Martin L. King


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: headset]
    #4315433 - 06/20/05 12:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

poison
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal.
3. Chemistry & Physics A substance that inhibits another substance or a reaction: a catalyst poison.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poison

The third definition is obviously not what we mean in this case, and is basically irrelavent to what we are discussing.

Psilocybin does not cause "injury, illness, or death... by chemical means", nor is it "destructive or fatal" at a recreational dose (though people have wandered out into traffic under the influence), so it's not a poison.

However, toxicity is dosage dependent - you can kill yourself by consuming too much of just about anything.
In this case:
"Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs). The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. According to Leo Hollister, Jonathon Ott, and John W. Allen, one would have to consume their body weight in fresh mushrooms or eat approximately 19 grams of the pure chemical substance to bring on death."
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Psilocybin is a poison [Re: niteowl]
    #4315466 - 06/20/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Everything is poisonous in extreme doses.


Oxygen is more poisonous than Psilocybin tho.




Exactly. The definition of psilocybin could be 'argued' to be poison but it is not accurate.

How many 'poisons' could you eat your own bodyweight in volume and then have a risk of death?

I mean its a common myth that psilocybin as our terms define it as a poison and this is simply not true. The thought has been like certain plants which cause toxic delirium (tripping), psilocybin does not.

So the argument that it is poison is wrong, and you could argue it being a poison but that is a HUGE STRETCH  :grin:


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