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InvisibleEgo Death
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The body giving chemical rewards???
    #4314304 - 06/19/05 06:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Everyday our body rewards us chemically, for completeing the task nessacery for life.

If we eat food or make love then the body rewards us by releasing feel good endorphines.

In fact, anything that aids the body wil also produce a positive chemical result. (exorcise, even urinating!)


What interests me is why does the body have to reward the user(?) for completeing its tasks.  Does this not suggest tht the user (the soul or free will) is a seperate entity from the body?

Does science actually have any knowledge of what it is that recieves the pleasure or pain.  I know that it can describe it as the pain being released and picked up by a receptor.  But if the human is just a perfect machine as some believe then why would it need to release and then recieve the endorphine, the process could simply be automated like other bodily functions! :confused:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4314444 - 06/19/05 07:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

We are not rewarded...we are just made to feel comfortable instead of miserable. That is like saying the absence of pain is a reward for not hurting ourselves. This only suggests that nature impels us to survive physically.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4314552 - 06/19/05 07:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The body being chemical rewards???

:confused: :thumbup:
:heart:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Gomp]
    #4314620 - 06/19/05 07:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

WTF? How the hell does this thread get 350 views in 10 minutes??


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4315019 - 06/19/05 10:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Does science actually have any knowledge of what it is that recieves the pleasure or pain. I know that it can describe it as the pain being released and picked up by a receptor. But if the human is just a perfect machine as some believe then why would it need to release and then recieve the endorphine, the process could simply be automated like other bodily functions!

All bodily functions involving nerve transmission have a release/uptake of chemicals.


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Diploid]
    #4315108 - 06/19/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Someone pressed Control + R quickly. It makes the views skyrocket.

There, I just gave the secret away.

The body is truely like an organic machine. If something goes wrong, it sends warning signals to move all the systems to function and fix it, which we perceive as pain and respond consciously by moving our body away from the source of the pain. Likewise, if something goes right, our body puts up messages saying to continue or elevate our current actions, our systems work together to pump our waists or light another bowl, and voluntarily we guide our body to stay the course.

There is no separation in my mind. It all works together, because the chemicals that are the messages for the body are us. Our consciousness is part of the chemicals, and those chemicals are part of our consciousness.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ravus]
    #4315874 - 06/20/05 03:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i think feelings ARE one part of the brain reinforcing other parts.

i think the subjective experience of pleasure/pain happens when the "higher function" parts of the brain get signals about this happening and starts language- "i feel good" for example (or instead of language-- whatever element of consciousness you're using to measure the process)

also, it's my understanding that you're not being reinforced for everyday shit. you're being reinforced when you're learning something new, not when completing rote tasks.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4315887 - 06/20/05 03:31 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm..a rather unique and interesting take on this, I must say. However, I'm with Ravus et al on this.....


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ravus]
    #4317922 - 06/20/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

>>>respond consciously

If its a machine then their would be no need to respond consciously. The machine could perform the move away from harm automatically just the same as we can walk or breath automatically.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4317929 - 06/20/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Even the words suggest it here.

Automatically like automate or robotic.

Counscious means something is making a choice, what is the body giving a choice?

If its just another part of the body, why give it a choice?


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4319109 - 06/21/05 01:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

maybe consciousness is this small blip on the edge of the mind
and all this stuff is happening automatically
consciousness happens just because the human brain is so advanced
and its more of an afterthought so to speak than the gist of the mind IMO

as for choice? i think a person can choose things in the same way a robot can. it's all predetermined and automatic. consciousness is automatic itself, it's just what minds to talk about due to its nature. and talking is itself is automatic.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4319603 - 06/21/05 04:04 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

body will give you reward depending in strength on how you perceive the task / experience


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Ego Death]
    #4319739 - 06/21/05 08:04 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What interests me is why does the body have to reward the user(?) for completeing its tasks. Does this not suggest tht the user (the soul or free will) is a seperate entity from the body?




For me, it shows the opposite, that there is no soul. If there were a soul, then the body wouldn't need these reminders (hunger, pain, etc) to know when something bad has happened nor would the body need rewards to know when something good has happened.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Seuss]
    #4320354 - 06/21/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

OK, some good points dudes!


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Seuss]
    #4323567 - 06/22/05 03:42 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

What interests me is why does the body have to reward the user(?) for completeing its tasks. Does this not suggest tht the user (the soul or free will) is a seperate entity from the body?




For me, it shows the opposite, that there is no soul. If there were a soul, then the body wouldn't need these reminders (hunger, pain, etc) to know when something bad has happened nor would the body need rewards to know when something good has happened.




the soul could controls the brain , the brains controls the body

object of soul is to stay alive just as the the object of its containment


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: fresh313]
    #4323832 - 06/22/05 08:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> object of soul is to stay alive

So a soul dies? Whatever happened to the 'eternal soul' and 'burn in hell forever' ... those types of things?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Seuss]
    #4323885 - 06/22/05 09:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Concioussness arsies out of causes, physical form arises out of conciousness, concioussness receives sense impressions from the physical sense organs, which were produced due to karmic causes arising out of the stream of concioussness. If you have committed postive actions, this creates the causes for at some point, the fruits of temporary pleausure to manifest (satisfaction of desire) through mental abstractions and sense desire gratificiations.

The physical manifestations of pleasure have there reactive results within the stream of concioussness, through the ripening of causes. Chemical reactions in the body, are merly the fruition of previously accumilated karma, that has arisen due to appearence of secondary causes (like giving a seed, soil, water and sunlight, it will gorw), within the stream of conciousness, and as the links of interdepenance contunes, the results are displayed through physical and psycological manifestations. There is no "self" or "soul", that recieves these pleasurable sensations, as pleausre is merly the results of causes manfiesting through the impetus of physical forms and mental abstractions, which themselves are the result of causes generated through the ignorant actvity of body speech and mind.

When i look within, i can find no soul, or self of which to speak of. Any teachings which says there is an eternal soul, is airing on the side of eternalism, and as such is an extreme view based on mental abstractions. The facts are that one cannot find anything permenant when one examines any mental or physical manifestation. Therefore, the real nature of things must be inherently open, empty and beyond all causes becuase the causes themselves have no essence.

Of course for someone who does'nt accept or understand the law of karma, it may be diffult to comprehend, becuase its impossible to fathom the infinite complexity of karma in an intellectual way. For such a person attempting to understand in a theoretical way, it may all seem like so much confusing hosh bosh or pseudo spirituality. But when one examines things closely, and then turns this examiniation inward, then it becomes absolutely possible to directly experience of the true nature of reality, as it is, as many sicentists and middle way practioners alike have experienced first hand.


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Edited by Sinbad (06/22/05 09:19 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4323973 - 06/22/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Concioussness arsies out of causes,


do you mean any causes? what is a cause? what would that mean consciousness is if it is from anything - could anything be a cause (or effect)?

Quote:

Sinbad said:physical form arises out of conciousness,


do you mean the perception of physical form arises in consciousness due to sensation (and other causes)?

Quote:

Sinbad said:concioussness receives sense impressions from the physical sense organs, which were produced due to karmic causes arising out of the stream of concioussness.


do you mean karma acts by filtering sensation? - you could be on to something here!!

Quote:

Sinbad said: If you have committed ... it may all seem like so much confusing hosh bosh or pseudo spirituality. But when one examines things closely, and then turns this examiniation inward, then it becomes absolutely possible to directly experience of the true nature of reality, as it is, as many sicentists and middle way practioners alike have experienced first hand.




the last part did seem like hosh bosh and could use some more ironing out (i.e. simplification).
but this is pretty good to start with, i.e. you do get to the point of there being a filter (or mask) on input, based upon the "karma" principle of consciousness. allowing that pleasure may follow or not follow from the same general set of sensations.

(the spelling was precious - arsies of Concioussness - just imagine all the causes of arsies.)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4324081 - 06/22/05 11:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Causes are karmic traces produced in the mind through ignorant activity. Like seeds, they manifest and grow to fruition when the right circumstances are present. Ignroance of the true nature of reality is the primary cause (first link) in the chain of cause and effect. Out of this root cause "karmic formations" continually manfiest from previous ignorant activity (the second link).

The karmic potentialites of these formations give rise to concioussness (the third link). And the concioussness bearing tendencies are reborn, giving rise to "name and form" (the fourth link). Based on name and from are the "six senses, including the mind" (the fifth link).

Without these six sense there would be no "contact" (the sixth link) with objects of sense. Without contact there would be no "sensation" (the seventh link). These are the effects in this life of ignorance and past karma. Dependant on sensation is the thrist or "desire" (the eighth link).

From desire comes "grasping" (the ninth link). From grapsing emerges "becomming" (the tenth link). From these causes in the present life comes "rebirth" (eleventh link). And of cours ewihtout birth, there would be no great aggregate of pain, old age, sickness, and "death" (the twelfth link).

This is the main teaching of the Buddha, which is th main difference from all other teachings like Hindusim, which is a religion of great attainment, non-theless they do not recongize the empty, open nature or the twelve links of interdependant origination.

I think this may have answered all of your questions.


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Edited by Sinbad (06/22/05 11:14 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The body giving chemical rewards??? [Re: Sinbad]
    #4324133 - 06/22/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)



from the 5th link to the ninth link you do have core buddhism.
the others are like the christian gospels, added by structured mystics in the creation of hosh bosh. from hosh bosh comes financing and from financing you get real estate, and from real estate you leave your legacy in this world...


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