Home | Community | Message Board


Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Portable Greenhouse

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Downing Street memos
    #4313532 - 06/19/05 01:04 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2005/06/19/excerpts_from_downing_street_memos/

Quote:

''Condi's enthusiasm for regime change is undimmed. But there were some signs, since we last spoke, of greater awareness of the practical difficulties and political risks. . . . From what she said, Bush has yet to find the answers to the big questions: How to persuade international opinion that military action against Iraq is necessary and justified; What value to put on the exiled Iraqi opposition; How to coordinate a US/allied military campaign with internal opposition; (assuming there is any); What happens on the morning after?"




Quote:

'US scrambling to establish a link between Iraq and Al Qaida is so far frankly unconvincing. To get public and Parliamentary support for military operations, we have to be convincing that the threat is so serious/imminent that it is worth sending out troops to die for; it is qualitatively different from the threat posed by other proliferators who are closer to achieving nuclear capability (including Iran)."

''The second problem is the END STATE. Military operations need clear and compelling military objectives. For Kosovo, it was: Serbs out, Kosovars back, peace-keepers in. For Afghanistan, destroying the Taliban and Al Qaida military capability. For Iraq, ''regime change" does not stack up. It sounds like a grudge between Bush and Saddam."




Quote:

''C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude (about Iraq). Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."




emphasis added


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Downing Street memos [Re: cb9fl]
    #4313581 - 06/19/05 01:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What utter bilge. How about this for perspective on this horseshit, which doesn't even say what many have purported it to say. Go here.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004746.php
I've been waiting for some fool to go with this and now I have one. If anyone knows how to paste this, I would appreciate it.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Downing Street memos [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4316517 - 06/20/05 11:45 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

June 19, 2005
Did Lucy Ramirez Find The Downing Street Memos?
The media and the Leftists have had a field day with the Downing Street memos that they claim imply that the Bush administration lied about the intelligence on WMD in order to justify the attack on Iraq. Despite the fact that none of the memos actually say that, none of them quote any officials or any documents, and that the text of the memos show that the British government worried about the deployment of WMD by Saddam against Coalition troops, Kuwait and/or Israel, the meme continues to survive.

Until tonight, however, no one questioned the authenticity of the documents provided by the Times of London. That has now changed, as Times reporter Michael Smith admitted that the memos he used are not originals, but retyped copies (via LGF and CQ reader Sapper):

The eight memos ? all labeled "secret" or "confidential" ? were first obtained by British reporter Michael Smith, who has written about them in The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times.
Smith told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the originals.

The AP obtained copies of six of the memos (the other two have circulated widely). A senior British official who reviewed the copies said their content appeared authentic. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the secret nature of the material.


Readers of this site should recall this set of circumstances from last year. The Killian memos at the center of CBS' 60 Minutes Wednesday report on George Bush' National Guard service supposedly went through the same laundry service as the Downing Street Memos. Bill Burkett, once he'd been outed as the source of the now-disgraced Killian memos, claimed that a woman named Lucy Ramirez provided them to him -- but that he made copies and burned the originals to protect her identity or that of her source.

Why would a reporter do such a thing? While reporters need to protect their sources, at some point stories based on official documents will require authentication -- and as we have seen with the Killian memos, copies make that impossible. The AP gets a "senior British official" to assert that the content "appeared authentic", which only means that the content seems to match what he thinks he knows.

This, in fact, could very well be another case of "fake but accurate", where documents get created after the fact to support preconceived notions about what happened in the past. One fact certainly stands out -- Michael Smith cannot authenticate the copies. And absent that authentication, they lose their value as evidence of anything.

Besides, as the AP report makes clear, the two governments sincerely worried about the deployment of WMD despite the allegations of those who fixate on one sentence of one memo. The latest issue coming from the memos, according to its proponents, is the alleged statement by Blair that WMD programs had not progressed. However, it also points out why 9/11 made all the difference in the approach to Iraq:

The documents confirm Blair was genuinely concerned about Saddam's alleged weapons of mass destruction, but also indicate he was determined to go to war as America's top ally, even though his government thought a pre-emptive attack may be illegal under international law.
"The truth is that what has changed is not the pace of Saddam Hussein's WMD programs, but our tolerance of them post-11 September," said a typed copy of a March 22, 2002 memo obtained Thursday by The Associated Press and written to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

"But even the best survey of Iraq's WMD programs will not show much advance in recent years on the nuclear, missile or CW/BW (chemical or biological weapons) fronts: the programs are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up."


All of the Western nations had intelligence that matched with the Bush/Blair determination that Saddam had not disposed of his WMD stocks. Prior to 9/11, the Western approach of waiting Saddam out appeared adequate. After 9/11, the existence of those WMD stocks clearly was intolerable, given Saddam's involvement with terrorist groups in the past -- including hosting an al-Qaeda convention, of sorts, in 1999.

Even if these memos could be authenticated, they're still meaningless. They could only excite the kind of idiots that would hold mock impeachment hearings with four witnesses and no authority whatsoever.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Downing Street memos [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4316898 - 06/20/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What is up with that journalist? Destroying the memos and then retyping on an old typewriter, then photocopying the new "originals" mulitple times to make them appear aged? Check out the pdf of the "originals". That is wierd.

I don't trust anyone anymore. Color me skeptical.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Downing Street memos [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4316948 - 06/20/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

From a anonymous source, Highly Placed!


Disturbing News.
The 2008 Democratic Nominee for president was
convicted for domestic violence, but got it hushed up.
Since I don't want to reveal my source, I had to
burn the original transcript of the confession,
however, I will eventually post my re-typed
copy of the confession.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Downing Street memos [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4354747 - 06/30/05 11:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Blair: No Predetermination for Iraq War



By PAISLEY DODDS and DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writers
Wed Jun 29, 6:37 PM ET



LONDON - Prime Minister Tony Blair firmly denied Wednesday that the Bush administration signaled just months after Sept. 11 that a decision was made to invade Iraq, saying he was "astonished" by claims that leaked secret memos suggested the U.S. was rushing to war.

ADVERTISEMENT

I'm a WomanMan seeking a ManWoman
Age: to ZIP:


In an interview with The Associated Press a day after President Bush delivered a televised defense of the war in Iraq, Blair said defeating the insurgency was crucial to protecting security worldwide, and joined Bush in linking the war with the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"What happened for me after Sept. 11 is that the balance of risk changed," said Blair, interviewed on the stone terrace overlooking the garden of his No. 10 Downing Street offices, where policy meetings on Iraq were held before the invasion.

After Sept. 11, it was necessary to "draw a line in the sand here, and the country to do it with was Iraq because they were in breach of U.N. resolutions going back over many years," he said. "I took the view that if these people ever got hold of nuclear, chemical or biological capability, they would probably use it."

Blair was asked about the leaked memos, which suggest strong concerns in the British government that the Bush administration was determined in 2002 to invade Iraq ? months before the United States and Britain unsuccessfully sought U.N. Security Council approval for military action.

"People say the decision was already taken. The decision was not already taken." Blair said he was "a bit astonished" at the intensive U.S. media coverage about the memos, which included minutes of a July 23, 2002, meeting between Blair and top officials at his Downing Street office.

According to the minutes of the meeting, Sir Richard Dearlove, then chief of Britain's intelligence service, said the White House viewed military action against Saddam Hussein as inevitable following the Sept. 11 attacks. Bush "wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD" (weapons of mass destruction), read the memo, seen by the AP. "But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

In the interview, Blair said raising such concerns was a natural part of any examination of the cause for war.

"The trouble with having a political discussion on the basis of things that are leaked is that they are always taken right out of context. Everything else is omitted from the discussion and you end up focusing on a specific document," he said. "It would be absolutely weird if, when the Iraq issue was on the agenda, you were not constantly raising issues, trying to work them out, get them in the right place," he said.

Blair suggested that ensuring victory in Iraq was now more important than debating the case for invasion.

"The most important thing we can do in Iraq is concentrate on the fact ... that what is happening there is a monumental battle that affects our own security," he said. "You've got every bad element in the whole of the Middle East in Iraq trying to stop that country (from getting) on its feet and (becoming) a democracy."

Blair echoed Bush's pledge a day earlier to keep U.S. forces in Iraq until the fight is won. "There is only one side to be on now and it is time we got on it and stuck in there and get the job done, and not leave until the job is done," he said.

Blair won a historic third term in office last month. But his Labour Party saw its parliament majority slashed, largely because of discontent over Iraq. While Blair's close ties to Bush have cost him with voters at home, he said it's that relationship which allows the countries to talk about tough issues.

"My support for America is not based on you give us support for this and you get that in return," Blair said. "I should only do what is right for Britain. The president should only do what is right for America, and we should both try to do what is right for the world."

That alluded to Blair's ambitious twin goals for next week's summit in Scotland of the world's eight most industrialized nations ? reaching consensus on fighting climate change, and greatly boosting aid to Africa. On climate change in particular, Blair said the going may be rough.

"On climate change there obviously has been a disagreement over Kyoto," Blair said referring to the Kyoto Protocol, which the Bush administration has rejected. He said he hoped to reach agreement on moving toward a low-carbon economy that curbs greenhouse gas emissions.

"On Africa, I don't think there is a disagreement about the basic principles of what we are trying to achieve and obviously I hope that by the time we get to the summit next week we have got agreement on the substance of the package."

Blair is calling for fair trade in Africa and an extra $25 billion a year in international aid for the continent by 2010, and a further $25 billion annually up to 2015.

Blair, looking tanned and relaxed, has said he won't run for another term, and on Wednesday he brushed aside a question about what he might do after leaving office.

"I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it because the job is pretty all-engrossing. If you believe in what you are doing, it is exciting to take on the challenge and try to do it."

Next to the terrace was the Cabinet room, where the walls are lined with tomes on the lives of Benjamin Disraeli and other predecessors. Does he remain as full of energy as in 1997, that heady time of promise when he first joined their ranks?

"Yes, I do," he replied. "In fact, I feel vigorous and enthusiastic."
http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://news...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Portable Greenhouse

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Palast Statement To Conyers On Downing St Memo usefulidiot 799 9 06/22/05 12:11 AM
by afoaf
* Secret British memo reveals Bush rush to war, deception zorbman 688 8 03/29/06 11:00 AM
by Seuss
* Memo: Bush wanted Aljazeera bombed!
( 1 2 3 all )
lonestar2004 2,007 46 11/29/05 06:33 PM
by JesusChrist
* Smoking Gun Memo IsaacHunt 725 14 08/02/05 04:18 PM
by zappaisgod
* Blair admits mass graves claim untrue Xlea321 605 7 07/26/04 07:57 AM
by GazzBut
* Push for Blair as new EU president Luddite 583 5 06/18/07 05:15 PM
by figgusfiddus
* Blair targets fat cats and boardroom greed Alex213 243 0 02/02/06 12:51 PM
by Alex213
* 14 year old tells Blair the truth
( 1 2 all )
Xlea321 1,589 34 08/21/04 03:16 AM
by Xlea321

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
788 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kraken Kratom
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.078 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.