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Offlinewhite
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Real Love (Pervert Redeemer)
    #4311191 - 06/18/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You either kill yourselves or love real ,
bold statement?,
here?s something more elaborated: http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4313267 - 06/19/05 09:15 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You can't get out of it, until you get into it! :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4314082 - 06/19/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I read that.

It's strongly biased.
A christian psychologist sees his beliefs reflected in his profession.

Masturbation is a source of unavoidable frustration and perversion :rolleyes:

Promiscuity and sexual activeness are negativized but low sex drive is not as negative in comparison.

Homosexuality is a source of misery and homophobia appearantly means "gay people who can't come to terms with straight males having non-sexual bonding"

Extensive references to an external God, spirituality being higher than lust, only a rare few and true saints are capable of true love and the rest of the people are misled and insincere.

In a paragraph dealing with sexual penetration a pun is made to it being "the slippery slope to Hell".

Oh please Dr. X, I hate pseudoscience. Either its all God and no psychology and all psychology and no God, but don't write papers of "science" to get people to obey the dogma of your religion.

Bad article :thumbdown:


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OfflineTurd
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4314094 - 06/19/05 05:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Similarly, ?I love you? commonly implies ?I enjoy touching your body,? or ?I enjoy believing that you will give me security or protection,? or ?I enjoy having sex with you? (or ?I want to have sex with you.?"

I stopped reading there (and it was the first sentence I read)

bad post :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: Turd]
    #4314118 - 06/19/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yup, us mere mortals are incapable of sincere love, only highly spiritually evolved people can give true love.

Not.

I decided to read it all and it all went downhill from there.



Here on another page of his site:

Quote:


To do God?s will essentially means to turn completely away from sin?that is, our functional narcissism. In psychological terms, this necessitates several elements:
?
Loving God more than anything, or anyone, in this world
?
Treating others with mercy and forgiveness
?
Putting aside all aggression and competitive behavior
?
Renouncing your pride in order to live in spiritual humility (see below)
?
Conducting all of your interpersonal relationships with psychological honesty
?
Living in sexual purity by not making others into mere objects for your personal pleasure





Oh please :rolleyes:

Quote:

And maybe true spiritual healing involves distancing yourself from psychobabble and materialism.




A christian site sailing under the false flag of psychology.


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Edited by Asante (06/19/05 05:41 PM)


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Offlinewhite
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4315337 - 06/19/05 11:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Icelander: what do you mean?

Wiccan: you?ve only given me the empty half of the cup,
what did Dr. Raymond `X? Richmond get right?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4315345 - 06/19/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Half empty or half full doesn't apply to such a bias Christian site. Unless you're an extreme Christian who believes masturbation is perverted self-abuse, in which case... :shrug:


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineKalix
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: Ravus]
    #4315358 - 06/20/05 12:00 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"With more direct language, we can say that a perversion leads you away from the true depths of your emotional pain?and from the psychological healing that could happen if you were to work therapeutically with that pain?by distracting you with something apparently pleasurable."

By his definition, the psychedilic experience is the exact opposite of perversion.. Sad thing is, he'd probably hang himself if he knew.


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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Offlinewhite
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: Ravus]
    #4315567 - 06/20/05 01:09 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It?s not a christian site, I?m not a christian.
The site is full of interesting psychological insight if you?re willing to get through your theology disdain,it never claims masturbation to be inherently bad,yes, the man often gets too carried away dismissing it.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4315598 - 06/20/05 01:23 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

welcome to the shroomery white :smile:

i gotta disagree with that article though

Quote:

Lacan saw through these errors and taught that psychoanalysis must involve ?three? persons: the client, the analyst, and the unconscious. Just as healthy emotional development depends on a father coming between the mother and child, to sever the child?s emotional enmeshment with the mother, good psychotherapeutic work must let the unconscious come between the client and psychotherapist. This means that the psychotherapeutic process must always involve a symbolic ?fathering? [7] by which clients are led to recognize and overcome the illusions of their identifications with others and, in the process, to heal the aggression and hostility that underlie those identifications.




arrgh  :pirate:

as if having needs is a bad thing, or possible to get around.

Quote:


This explains why friends and ?lovers,? with all their personal needs and desires, cannot function psychotherapeutically.





except for the fact that friends and lovers actually care about you.  the "neutral" analyst has nothing on that.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (06/20/05 01:37 AM)


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Offlinewhite
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: Kalix]
    #4315699 - 06/20/05 02:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Explain the perversion/psychedelic experience dichotomy


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Offlinewhite
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4315708 - 06/20/05 02:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

thanx crunchy
I don?t care much about that passage,you may be right.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4316152 - 06/20/05 06:30 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:blush: Welcome to the shroomery! This thread proved to be a bit of a hazing , don't take it personal, its not intended like that.

The problem is: It is a Christian site. Said administrator in his pages makes very clear that his loyalty lies with (his image of) the Lord God Almighty and that his profession, which the site is supposed to be about, is second place by a wide magin.

Nothing he writes about "psychology" is truly contrary to Christian dogma. And how can it when the requirement of that religion, and he clearly prescribes his clients, to "Love God above All Others".

The start looked interesting so I chopped and printed it on 5 pages. I actually missed an insect documentary on the Discovery Channel to read the fucker. In the beginning he states "psychology can't really tell you which sexual practices are good or bad." But as you read beyond it he slowly boxes in and eliminates anything except a man and a woman lying on top of eachother humping straightforward and speaking of their undying love.

In his view even the good ole favorite of "fireman & lady in distress" equals perversion because it ventures out of the ordinary. The dull and ordinary, mind you.

Masturbation is inevitably a source of frustration? Good God  :shocked: Masturbation, if properly handled :wink: is widely regarded throughout psychology as a means to explore your sexuality and become a better sex partner to others. He implies also very clearly in his clever "one hand clapping" methaphor that masturbation is a pathetic practice, and he offers No Sex as a solution.

What really got me pissed off is his attitude towards homosexuals. He talks to them all empathic-like but in the end of the day, when he takes their check, he thinks "pervert".
A profoundly religious man who wants to cure people of their perverted sexuality  :rolleyes:

Sounds like a description of Doctor Kellogg, one of the greatest quacks in history, who invented his cornflakes to cure youths from the "vice of self-soiling" and who firmly believed that all diseases man could possibly have, found their origin and cure in the bowels.

So the point I'm trying to make here White is that his site claims to offer you an introduction to psychology but it does nothing of the sort. It lures people like you and I who are sincerely interested in psychology onto his website and uses (to quote him) "psychobabble" to bring across the message that the bible has been right all along :thumbdown: Read his page "Spiritual Values" or how its called and you see a vast dissertation on christian saints and christian dogma and eventually he clearly states that his God leaves his profession completely in the dust.

That means he is, like most of us, a man caught in an illusion who only sees what he wants to see. But what he wants to see is not psychology but adoption of a religious dogma that historically has caused much grief and brought great misery onto those who were of other opinions. At the time his splendorous saints lived his church burned twenty million people at the stake for being witches and heretics and waged holy war against the Muslims in the name of their religion, wars that endangered Europe by antagonizing the Islamic world that surrounds it.

I am not opposed to christianity. My two best friends are christians. I'm not opposed to psychology.
But I am rigorously opposed to pseudoscience which dazzles people with scientific logic designed to trick them into a religious message.
I say designed because the degree of communication he displays shows a man who is very aware which message he brings across and uses it deviously at times.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4316259 - 06/20/05 09:03 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

white said:
Icelander:  what do you mean?




There are no right and wrongs in our sexuality, per se. Most people are taught to fear the powerful life force energy of sex. This guy seems to be no exception. Many are taught to repress this energy using the tools of guilt and shame.

For healing and growth into power,  sexuality has to be explored completely and integrated into wholeness IMO. There may be sexual styles one has had to adopt for sexual survival in childhood that are limiting. So before one decides what is "right or wrong" about sex you need to delve into your sexuality and explore all the whys and wherefores.  So... you can't get out of any unfulfilling styles until you fully explore and accept all of the self. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinewhite
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: Asante]
    #4318139 - 06/20/05 08:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

damn! ,it?s a christian site indeed.
I really bought the gimmick when he suggested monogamy is unnatural,what kind of christian moralist would say such thing?,
still, I managed to read all the essays in the main index.
That science-religion incompatibility thing,I think it?s a matter of what religious beliefs you pursue,of course,if you believe that you?re going to hell or that your holier than others ,you end up flat out screwed,perpetrating the unspeakable horrors of hatred,but,how about this?:
`Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.?
A. Einstein
Pretty accomplished for a pseudo-scientist

-`That means he is, like most of us, a man caught in an illusion who only sees what he wants to see.?-I suppose you?re not delusional,are you?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Real Love (Pervert Redeemer) [Re: white]
    #4318178 - 06/20/05 08:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Read your Old Testament. Lot surrendered "his angel" to a mob to be gangbanged. He said "romantic love" was unrealistic but he immediately  added that that was not a true christian value. Indeed, there's little romance in the bible but there are some quite crude marital scenes.

Ah but Einstein's science and religion were strictly seperated! When Einstein talked science it was undiluted by bias and thinking and conceptualizing without bias was probably one of the crucial things what made him stand out among the multitudes of millions with higher IQs than he.

I prefer people who are "spiritual" AND "scientific" but they got to have a degree of separation between the two or have wedded them such that it works in both ways.

If you believe in a Prime Mover than sobeit. But if you argue that if a Prime Mover exists he made Man not by inexplicable miracles but by darwinian evolution you're winning major points with me, far more than the so-called "pure scientist" on the other end of the spectrum who uses evolution as a means of communicating his feeling that the Universe is void of meaning.

Being religious shouldnt automatically mean the universe is joyous, but being scientific shouldnt automatically mean the universe is depressing.

Quote:

-`That means he is, like most of us, a man caught in an illusion who only sees what he wants to see.?-I suppose you?re not delusional,are you?




I am fully aware that not a single thing is proven beyond any doubt and therefore I cannot be certain of an "absolute truth". As humans tend to live in delusion and self-deception I harbour no illusions and consider myself to be very probably deluded on a wide range of matters. Holier than thou? Absolute Truth? By no means whatsoever.

Bear with me White: I'm a bit odd but all in all I'm not that bad :wink:


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