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 IsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
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 Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq"  [Re: Redstorm]
#4399998 - 07/13/05 02:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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You can blame Saddam for a lot of things but not George Bush laughing in the face of the UN, occupying Iraq and then robbing it blind.
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 Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: IsaacHunt]
#4400008 - 07/13/05 02:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Perhaps you should do some research instead of just giving a blind knee-jerk reaction to a situation you know nothing about.
Though we gave the wrong reason for doing so, we were right for going into Iraq.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: IsaacHunt]
#4400092 - 07/13/05 02:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Let?s just make this clear for everyone out there. I have heard so much about the ?way this war was sold,? and how we were ?tricked? by the WMD claims.
IRAQ WAR FOR DUMMIES
Here is the way the reasons for using force in Iraq were OFFICIALLY given to the American people via our congress:
(in order written in the resolution)
1. Iraq?s past war of aggression and illegal occupation of Kuwait in 1990.
2. Iraq?s failure to abide by the unequivocal sanctions agreed to after 1991.
3.Iraq?s history of possessing chemical and biological weapons and advanced nuclear weapons development program (and failure to prove complete destruction of such weapons)
4.Iraq?s flagrant violation of the cease fire
5.Iraq?s attempt to thwart efforts of weapons inspectors up until 1998
6. U.S. Congressional resolution conclusion that Iraq was continuing WMD programs in 1998
7. Iraq posed a continuing threat to the national security of the U.S, international peace and security in the Persian Gulf regions
8. Iraq continued to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability
9. Iraq supported and harbored terrorist organizations
10. Iraq engaged in brutal repression of its civilian population
11. Iraq refused to release, repatriate or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman
12. Iraq failed to return property wrongfully seized from Kuwait
13. Iraq has demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people
14. Iraq has demonstrated hostility toward and willingness to attack the United States by attempting to assassinate former President Bush
15. Iraq has demonstrated hostility toward and willingness to attack the United States and Coalition Forces by firing on many thousands of occasions on US and Coalition Armed Forces enforcing United Nations resolutions
16. Members of al Qaida are known to be in Iraq
17. Iraq continued to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens
18. The attacks of September 11, 2001 underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations
19. Iraq?s demonstrated WMD capability (noted above), willingness to use WMD (noted above) and the risk to use or provide such weapons to terrorists (noted above)
20.UN Security Council Resolution 678 authorized the use of all necessary means to enforce UN SC resolution 660 and subsequent resolutions
21. The Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expresses the policy of the US to support efforts to remove the current Iraqi regime from power and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace the regime
22. It is in the national security of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region
So what? Reason #19 turned out not to be immediate and imminent enough
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
#4400099 - 07/13/05 02:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you think we would be in Iraq if Bush had never mentioned WMDs to the American people?
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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Gijith]
#4400198 - 07/13/05 03:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes because of 9/11
Those who wanted to go into Iraq did so for multiple reasons.
Those who did not want to go into Iraq did so for multiple reasons.
and I guess also believed that stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction would be found.
On 9/11, it was box cutters and airplanes, not weapons of mass destruction that did the damage.
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (07/13/05 03:09 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
#4400620 - 07/13/05 04:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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For one thing, there is no "alleging" that Hussein commonly used gang-rape of women --often with male relatives forced to watch-- as a torture technique.
Seems you have a hard time conflagrating "some women" with all Iraqi women. Is gang-rape of a few worse than widespread rape of many? (such as in Australia). Should we now invade Australia to protect the women there?
Readers note: there will not be a direct response from Phred aka PSM aka...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
Fred's son
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Posts: 12,949
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Swami]
#4400684 - 07/13/05 04:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're still dodging the point.
I gave a long list of human rights abuses. You cherry-picked one out of that list, then tried to conflate criminal rape with state-sanctioned torture. Are there gangs of Muslim rapists in Sweden? Sure there are. Is criminal rape a problem in Australia? So they tell me. Does the government of Sweden or the government of Australia round up women to be raped or do they round up rapists and toss them in jail?
As a side note, you may want to check your dictionary for the difference between "conflate" and "conflagrate".
Phred
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
#4400699 - 07/13/05 04:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's not a coincidence that oil-rich men wage war on an oil-rich land.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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IsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
#4402011 - 07/14/05 12:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes because of 9/11
Oh please, only the most deluded of Bush supporters believe Iraq had any connection with 9/11. The bulk of the 9/11 plotters came from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.
The fact is that without the WMD propaganda Iraq would not have been invaded.
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IsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
#4402032 - 07/14/05 12:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I gave a long list of human rights abuses
Which we pointed out could just as easily be done with US backed dictatorships such as Saudi or Uzbekistan.
Is criminal rape a problem in Australia?
Are you trying to say rape is legal in Iraq?
Does the government of Sweden or the government of Australia round up women to be raped or do they round up rapists and toss them in jail?
Before you get carried away with this could you give us direct evidence of how often the government of Iraq "rounds up" women to be raped?
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BrAiN
Art Fag
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Adamist]
#4402123 - 07/14/05 12:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adamist said:
It's not a coincidence that oil-rich men wage war on an oil-rich land.
California is rich in oil. There was an oil field a block from my old house. Let's invade Huntington BEACH!!!
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: IsaacHunt]
#4402385 - 07/14/05 02:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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You are dodging the point. Husseins's Ba'aathist regime's rape of women as a torture technique was just one of a number of techniques used as a matter of course before that regime was removed from power -- not by the UN, but in spite of it.
Phred
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
#4402516 - 07/14/05 05:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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20.UN Security Council Resolution 678 authorized the use of all necessary means to enforce UN SC resolution 660 and subsequent resolutions
Please show where in the resolution it gave the US permission to wage war without UN consent. *Prepare for standard dodge on a point the poster brought up*
So basically the US went into Iraq because of a UN violation and in doing so violated a basic tenet of the UN Charter.
Note: EVERY SINGLE TIME I BRING THIS UP this point is dodged by Phred and others even when they ask me to point out the paragraph in the Charter and I display it in print. Of course, Phred only asks to put the question off and then never responds.
This type of dodge is indicative that many people don't believe in what they claim to believe in.
Also please show the timeline when the plight of the Iraqi people and democracy was first was brought up. Funny, but it was NOT mentioned as a reason until everything was well underway and yet - miraculously - became the MAIN reason (according to Bush & Co.) as to why America went to Iraq.
Any aware person knows this to be bullshit as there are far worse regimes in terms of humanitarian violations, yet no war plans are being drawn up.
Seems logic and reason is not a necessary part of discussing politics. Just state your side and dig in no matter what contrary points are made.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
Fred's son
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Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Swami]
#4402668 - 07/14/05 07:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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And again Swami dodges the issue. The issue is the UN's non-response to murderous tyrants.
Did UNSC Resolution 678 authorize by name any of the countries who resumed hostilities with Iraq in March of 2003 to do so? Nope.
Quote:
So basically the US went into Iraq because of a UN violation.
No, the US Congress listed a whole whap of other reasons as well. See lonestar's post.
Quote:
Also please show the timeline when the plight of the Iraqi people and democracy was first was brought up. Funny, but it was NOT mentioned as a reason until everything was well underway and yet - miraculously - became the MAIN reason (according to Bush & Co.) as to why America went to Iraq.
I'm not sure when the issue of democracy was first brought up. But in every one of Bush's speeches to the American people on the subject, the plight of the Iraqi people was brought up. And you know that as well as I do.
Quote:
Any aware person knows this to be bullshit as there are far worse regimes in terms of humanitarian violations, yet no war plans are being drawn up.
How do you know that? How do you know the Pentagon has no contingency plan for, say, the invasion of North Korea? What we do know for certain is the UN isn't drawing up any war plans for dealing with even a single one of those "far worse" regimes.
I agree with your observation that there is no lack of other murderous tyrants in the world who routinely violate the human rights of their subjects. Oddly, all of them rule countries considered to be UN members in good standing. Oddly, the UN has been as impotent at altering their behavior as they were at altering Hussein's behavior.
Which, of course, has been my point all along. You will note that my description of the UN's approach to murderous tyrants --
Quote:
You and the UN appear to hold the same view: "War is bad, the worst thing imaginable. So, you can butcher as many children as you want, torture as many people as you like, crush as many minorities as you please, treat your women like chattel, lobotomize and execute your homosexuals, grind every religious minority into the dirt, break as many bones and chop off as many limbs as you see fit, and obliterate every human freedom that annoys you: just don't bother your neigbors."
-- applies to quite a few more rulers of UN member nations than just Saddam Hussein.
As a side note, did you ever get around to providing us with your own definition of terrorism?
Phred
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Swami]
#4402808 - 07/14/05 09:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The UN hahahahaahahaahaahaahaah
I am going TO research the Patriot Act and see if we can declare war on the UN. It's not enough to just "get us out" of the UN. The monster must be destroyed.
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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IsaacHunt
Stranger
Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 176
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
#4404534 - 07/14/05 04:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, the US Congress listed a whole whap of other reasons as well. See lonestar's post.
But you do grasp that the only LEGAL reason was that the non-existent WMD posed a threat? That's why Bush and Blair were so keen to sell this fantasy to the UN.
But in every one of Bush's speeches to the American people on the subject, the plight of the Iraqi people was brought up
But the only LEGAL reason that had a prayer of getting through the UN was WMD. The UN describes launching wars of aggression as the supreme crime against humanity. It HAD to be self-defence from WMD. Certainly without the WMD fantasy Blair could not have gone to war which would have put Bush in a completely different position.
How do you know the Pentagon has no contingency plan for, say, the invasion of North Korea
I don't know about North Korea but it certainly appears to have no contingency plan for deposing the savage dictators of Saudi Arabia or Uzbekistan because it is supporting them both.
You will note that my description of the UN's approach to murderous tyrants --
YOUR description of the UN. That doesn't make it accurate. Indeed it would perhaps be more accurate as a description of Bush's support for Saudi.
As a side note, did you ever get around to providing us with your own definition of terrorism?
I don't know but I can't remember you defining why you considered Blair stating something in an interview is different from him stating it in a speech.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: niteowl]
#4901821 - 11/06/05 08:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
So his reason for publishing a book arent to make money.....but to spread the "truth" about whats going on in Iraq 
Marine who confessed to abuses lied to gain celebrity!
http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3188630
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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Guerrilla0726
Bringer ofChange
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 123
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
#4901847 - 11/06/05 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well we are by definition. And we haev been over the past 10 years.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Guerrilla0726]
#4903700 - 11/07/05 08:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla0726 said:
Well we are by definition. And we haev been over the past 10 years.
yea don't let the facts get in the way.
this story was "fake but accurate"......
kinda like Saddam having WM D'S "fake but accurate"
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Guerrilla0726]
#4903731 - 11/07/05 08:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla0726 said:
Well we are by definition. And we haev been over the past 10 years.
Apparently you have no idea what the definition of genocide is.
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