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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4317316 - 06/20/05 04:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Slaughter does not equal genocide. Like I said earlier, look it up. There is plenty of info on the web.

There is no intent to kill civilians. Even if there were, there is no intent to wipe out the entire Iraqi population.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317421 - 06/20/05 04:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Hella lot seem to be dyin tho eh?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317435 - 06/20/05 04:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, but civilian casualties occur in every war. This one is no different.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317480 - 06/20/05 05:04 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The war ended a 2 years ago, this is an occupation.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317525 - 06/20/05 05:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If we want to be literal, the war never started.

This is off-topic, though. I think we can all step back and realize this is not genocide.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317554 - 06/20/05 05:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

So what is going on if there isn't and never was a war? Just hundreds of thousands of people from a particular nation being killed?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317592 - 06/20/05 05:49 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Well, if you're going to be literal about it, then no, it never was. It was a conflict. I'm ready to admit it was a war if you're ready to admit it still is.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317634 - 06/20/05 06:02 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Cjay said

"Just hundreds of thousands of people from a particular nation being killed? "

i keep hearing this hundreds of thousands number. source?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4317671 - 06/20/05 06:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3962969.stm

various reports put the death toll at figures of 14 - 100,000 plus. Judging by the heavy handed and extremely clumsy methods of the US military and the current post war death toll in this lawless land I am inclined to go with the higher estimates. When whole towns, villages and cities are levelled to the ground with clusterbombs, helicopter machine guns, tomahawks followed by marauding marines, tanks and ground artillery.....a lot of civillian people die.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317690 - 06/20/05 06:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

That's the type of think that will happen when the enemy doesn't wear uniforms.

I'm not denying lots of people died. I'm just saying this guy should work on his vocabulary b/c he obviously doesn't understand the word "genocide".


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317705 - 06/20/05 06:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

CJay writes:

Quote:

When whole towns, villages and cities are levelled to the ground with clusterbombs, helicopter machine guns, tomahawks followed by marauding marines, tanks and ground artillery.....a lot of civillian people die.




What war are you referring to with this statement? Can't be WWII since there were no helicopter gunships or cluster bombs then. Fill us in, please.



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
    #4317712 - 06/20/05 06:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty sure he means the conflict in Iraq.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317724 - 06/20/05 06:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

He can't possibly be referring to the war in Iraq, since what he describes hasn't taken place there. I thought at first he might have meant Viet Nam, but I'm pretty sure cluster bombs weren't used in the bombing of North Viet Nam either. I am certain they weren't used in South Viet Nam or Cambodia.

No point speculating. I'll wait for CJay's answer.



Phred


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317727 - 06/20/05 06:29 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

100,000 civilian deaths since april 2003?

so thats like 50,000 a year?

4000 a month?

150 a day?

150 per day. BBC actually wants us to belive that 150 civilians have been killed every single day, day in and day out, week after week for 24 straight months? We're expected to believe that dozen or so people killed by homicide bombers once every few weeks is enough to make world wide news, but 150 people killed every day can only be detected by a study reported by the BBC.

sorry i think the numbers are cooked.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (06/20/05 06:30 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4317740 - 06/20/05 06:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

More than that. look at the date of the Lancet article, then remember that the "data" used to produce that number was gathered months before the report was published.


Phred


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317747 - 06/20/05 06:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If it was a conflict, and is now an occupation - then the USA is not at war. The USA is a colonising force.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: CJay]
    #4317760 - 06/20/05 06:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Were we colonizing Europe after WWII during the Marshall plan and the fixing of Europe's infrastructure?


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: niteowl]
    #4317764 - 06/20/05 06:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Dude, no one here is saying that bad things aren't happening in Iraq.
Just that using the term "genocide" is wrong. It gives the wrong impression of what is really going on over there.




Ya maybe, but i think it gives a better representation than what you hear on TV.
and this is just what he said to his commander to tell him what he felt on the war. its to be used as an image and not litteraly.
if he was going to title his book "genocide in Iraq", then that would be a problem.
so if what's really bothering you is that i put "genocide" in the title of my post, if you want i can change it, but i'd be changing another preson's words, and that's not real nice.

Quote:

Are there civilians being killed, of course, it's a war, civilians have been killed in every war in history. This is no different.




like Cjay said, it's not a war since 2 years ago. its an occupatoin.

Quote:

I have yet to hear of a situation where civilians were targeted for murder.




oh you were waiting to hear it on the shroomery huh? well then, why didn't you say it earlier? i'll make sure to remember that my next post in PA&L will be dedicated to you  :wink:

Quote:

From what I have heard so far from this guy, the civilians that were killed didn't follow the rules of the check point.
Had they stopped like the sign said they would NOT have been shot at.
The military did nothing wrong.




*sigh* its kind of downing to see that practically noone actually read my post. its like, whats the use for posting then?

"?When you put your hand up in the air with a closed fist, in the Marines it means you want them to stop,? he said. ?But, as we later learned, it?s actually the international sign of solidarity. It has a totally different meaning for the Iraqis ? to them it was a sign like hello. And that was just one example of how we were not trained properly to understand the cultural differences between us and them."


oh, and while i'm at it...
Quote:

it's a war



...here's another pertinent remark you might have missed from the article:

?As far as I?m concerned, the real war did not begin until they saw us murdering innocent civilians,? he said. ?I mean, they were witnessing their loved ones being murdered by US Marines. It?s kind of hard to tell someone that they are being liberated when they just saw their child shot or lost their husband or grandmother.?


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Phred]
    #4317771 - 06/20/05 06:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I use the word war loosely when addressing the invasion part of this episode. The conflict between two governments waged through their militaries. The bit that was like a war and not an occupation, the bit Bush happily sealed off with his 'Mission Accomplished' paegentry.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4317779 - 06/20/05 06:39 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Were we colonizing Europe after WWII during the Marshall plan and the fixing of Europe's infrastructure?




Were the local Europeans trying to drive you out?


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