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Offlineexclusive58
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Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq"
    #4310423 - 06/18/05 11:01 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Former Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey, a 12-year Marine veteran, lives in Waynesville, North Carolina, a small town in the Smoky Mountains just outside of Ashville. He is one of a growing number of American soldiers returning from Iraq who have become outspoken opponents of the war.

Massey entered Iraq as part of the initial US invasion in March 2003. He witnessed?and in some cases participated in?the killing of innocent civilians. During a single 48-hour period, he says, he saw as many as 30 civilians killed by US gunfire at highway checkpoints.

The brutality of the US military?s retaliation against the growing resistance of the Iraqi people transformed his view of the occupation and changed him for life. Massey, horrified and unable to reconcile himself to what was taking place, began to speak out to his superiors. He was eventually medi-vaced out of Iraq and diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. Labeled as a conscientious objector by his commanders, Massey sought legal counsel and won his honorable discharge in December 2003.

In Iraq, Massey was brought face to face with this involvement. The initial invasion took on the character of a one-sided slaughter, with the world?s strongest military power armed with the most technologically advanced weapons, on the one hand, and a disarmed and virtually defenseless military of a country already devastated by a decade of sanctions, on the other.

?You have to look at what was the overall goal of the mission. That was pretty evident when, eight months before we even left to go to Kuwait, the Marines were training to shut down and take over the Ar Rumaylah oil fields. We had detailed schematics and terrain models of all of the oil fields outside of Basra, and once we took care of those, all that was left was the ride into Baghdad.

?We were like a bunch of cowboys who rode into town shooting up the place. I saw charred bodies in vehicles that were clearly not military vehicles. I saw people dead on the side of the road in civilian clothes. As a matter of fact, I only remember seeing a couple of bodies in military uniform the whole time.

?There wasn?t a whole lot of direct fighting to speak of. There were some firefights?I mean I had bullet holes in the side of my Humvee?but it wasn?t like major combat action. We took the highway the whole way up to Baghdad. They had no artillery; they had no air support. They were so weakened by all the sanctions. All of their equipment was in very bad shape. Most of their hardware was left over from the war against Iran. The first Gulf War just devastated them. I don?t think they had the will or the opportunity to fight.?

?As far as I?m concerned, the real war did not begin until they saw us murdering innocent civilians,? he said. ?I mean, they were witnessing their loved ones being murdered by US Marines. It?s kind of hard to tell someone that they are being liberated when they just saw their child shot or lost their husband or grandmother.?

Massey manned a number of US military checkpoints on Iraqi highways in the months following the invasion. He described how, when cars failed to stop, out of confusion or otherwise, the order was to ?light them up? or open fire. It was at one of the checkpoints that Massey?s attitude toward the war reached its turning point.

?We signaled a car to stop and when it didn?t we opened fire. They were innocent civilians. We found no weapons, no explosives?nothing. Somehow, and I have no idea how he could have done it, but one guy got out of the car and he wasn?t badly wounded. He was the brother of one of the men bleeding to death in the car. He looked at me and asked, ?Why did you kill my brother. What did he do to you?? There were 30-plus civilians killed over two days at these checkpoints.?

Massey described the chaotic and reckless character of the roadside checkpoints and the indifference of the military leadership to the culture of the people that they were there supposedly to help.

?When you put your hand up in the air with a closed fist, in the Marines it means you want them to stop,? he said. ?But, as we later learned, it?s actually the international sign of solidarity. It has a totally different meaning for the Iraqis?to them it was a sign like hello. And that was just one example of how we were not trained properly to understand the cultural differences between us and them.

?The bottom line is they [the military command] don?t see the need to teach culture and humanity to men whose singular purpose is to kill. And that was just one of the cultural miscues. I blame the top of the chain of command, from the President down to Tommy Franks [the former commander-in-chief of US occupation forces] to General [James] Mattis [commander of the First Marine Division]. They all knew that the military was not trained properly when it comes to dealing with Muslim culture and a foreign land. But that was not our purpose for being there.?

In the midst of the widespread killing of civilians, Massey was struck by the callousness of the military command and the lack of humanitarian assistance they were offering the Iraqi people. This further deepened his doubts about the true purpose of the war.

?We actually left all of the humanitarian MRE?s [Meals Ready to Eat] in Kuwait,? he recalled. ?We were supposed to give these out for relief, and we left them in Kuwait. They were just for show when the film crews came into the camps. We also had this big show with the medical supplies that we were prepping for Iraqi casualties. We were supposed to get in there and take care of them.

?But I?ll give you an example of what we actually did. After we shot up this car with civilians, I called in the corpsmen to bring in stretchers. They came in and put two men on stretchers. Five minutes later, they brought them back and dumped their bodies on the side of the road. They were still alive. They were riddled with bullets?one guy was just rolling in agony on the side of the road.?

At the time, intelligence reports were streaming in describing insurgents and rebels driving ambulances and civilian cars. In a growing atmosphere of fear within US military ranks, the entire Iraqi population was now viewed as the enemy.

?We?re thinking everyone is a terrorist,? Massey recalled. ?Here we are on no sleep, and there are intelligence reports coming in right and left about suicide attacks and the Republican Guard and so on?attacks being mounted against American forces. So cars come driving through our checkpoints, and our orders are to light them up. The amazing thing about it is that we were telling the Iraqis the exact opposite. We were telling them to keep their schools open, keep the hospitals open, to go about their normal routine??we?re not here to hurt you, we?re just here to overthrow Saddam.? So these people were just doing their normal routines, and they were getting frickin? blasted for it.?

A recent study estimated the number of Iraqi deaths since the start of the war in March 2003 at around 100,000. When asked if this number seemed accurate, Massey responded:

?Yes, but that of course does not include the thousands more who will be dying from disease because of a lack of medical supplies, clean water, or proper sanitation. It does not include the hundreds of thousands that died in Iraq before the war even began from the sanctions. We are committing genocide in Iraq, and that is the intention.?

It is now well established that all of the pretexts for launching the unprovoked war in Iraq were based on manipulated intelligence and lies. In its drive toward war, the Bush administration fraudulently exploited the September 11 attacks to spread fear and panic throughout the country, and this, as Massey notes, was very effective in the South, where he is from.




?What do you tell a kid that just came back from war with the economy the way it is and the lack of jobs, who?s just got finished murdering innocent civilians because his government has violated every law in the Geneva Conventions?? Massey asked. ?You expect him to come back to the US and be a productive citizen? What do you do? For me, I keep hanging on to one thing that my grandfather used to say: ?The truth shall set you free.? I?ll keep talking as long as people listen.?


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/vet-n11.shtml


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4310604 - 06/18/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

World Socialist Web Site? Do you have a more respectable source?


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4311210 - 06/18/05 05:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Who cares what the source is? Doesn't change the facts.

oh, and i tried to see if Fox had anything concerning this, but to my great surprise they didn't...


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4311223 - 06/18/05 05:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Who cares what the source is? Doesn't change the facts.




I don't trust uber-Lefty sources like the "World Socialist Web".

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
oh, and i tried to see if Fox had anything concerning this, but to my great surprise they didn't...




I don't trust Fox either.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4311365 - 06/18/05 06:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What? So the source doesn't share your political point of views and you're disregarding the information they might have because of that? This isn't a left-wing or right-wing biased article. Its just stating what the ex-sergeant has to say.

sheesh.

who do you trust anyway?


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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4311956 - 06/18/05 10:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well, as long as that's a real soldier talking it speaks volumes. i can easilly fabricate an interview and give a point, though.


honestly, i'm not saying it's false.. but if it's true, it speaks a hell of alot. quite a bit of the filler(aka the shit the soldier's not saying) seems so biased it's almost unpleasent to read imo


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4311986 - 06/18/05 10:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think people misunderstand what genocide entails. Just because a lot of people die doesn't mean it is a genocide. A Genocide is defined as:

""any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. "

I don't believe we are trying to destroy the Iraqi people. It would have to be a war intended to destroy their people to be considered a genocide. Though I think the killing of innocent people is wrong, it was not intended so it is not a genocide.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4312134 - 06/18/05 11:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
What? So the source doesn't share your political point of views and you're disregarding the information they might have because of that?





I don't disregard it...I merely question it.  I tend not to trust biased sources.  A socialist website is invariably going to be super anti-war.  I question the motivations of the veteran and I question anything from sources like that.


Quote:

exclusive58 said:
who do you trust anyway?




Only really hardcore Right-Wing publications.  They speak the truth! 

:rotfl:

But seriously...I don't trust many news organizations.  But, I especially don't trust news from ideologues (whether on the Right or the Left).  Socialists tend to be ideologues.


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OfflineKamek
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4312685 - 06/19/05 02:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/24/148212

http://www.venusproject.com/ecs/Staff_Sergeant_Jimmy.html

pick one, there's much more there too...

edit: i don't know whether these people are left-winged or right-winged but google came up with plenty more...
I do think this isn't bullshit...


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Edited by Paderas (06/19/05 02:20 AM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Kamek]
    #4312741 - 06/19/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What is occurring in Iraq is not genocide. Don't just go spouting off words just because you read them.

If you read up on genocide, you'll clearly see that it is not going on in Iraq.


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OfflineKamek
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4312750 - 06/19/05 02:39 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

He's clearly quoting.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Kamek]
    #4312753 - 06/19/05 02:39 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4313554 - 06/19/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I tend not to trust biased sources.

Show me an unbiased source and I'll show you a lime green pig who can fly to the moon.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: trendal]
    #4313560 - 06/19/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

We're all totally missing the point here.

It doesn't matter how unbiased the source is, it is absolutely obvious that no genocide is occurring there.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: Redstorm]
    #4313568 - 06/19/05 01:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

True enough. Also true is that in any group of over 100,000 people you can find someone to support just about any point of view you want.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: trendal]
    #4313583 - 06/19/05 01:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I tend not to trust biased sources.

Show me an unbiased source and I'll show you a lime green pig who can fly to the moon.






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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4313586 - 06/19/05 01:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Shit :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4313672 - 06/19/05 02:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i wonder if you even read the post?

Sgt. Massey is coming out with a book about his military time in Iraq, its called "Cowboys from hell". You'll have more details if you buy it.

but then again, you'll still have every right not to trust this guy and say that he's just doing it for the money.

i especially liked the end of the article:
"What do you tell a kid that just came back from war with the economy the way it is and the lack of jobs, who?s just got finished murdering innocent civilians because his government has violated every law in the Geneva Conventions?" Massey asked. "You expect him to come back to the US and be a productive citizen? What do you do? For me, I keep hanging on to one thing that my grandfather used to say: ?The truth shall set you free.? I?ll keep talking as long as people listen."


--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: exclusive58]
    #4313690 - 06/19/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Do you know what genocide means?


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Iraq vet: "We're comitting genocide in Iraq" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4313698 - 06/19/05 02:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm thinking media organizations aren't playing their role, they're not bringing the news to the people. The reason for this is another debate.
IF you're searching for real info on the Iraq war, you're not going to find it on CNN, Fox or NBC or whatever.

This was on the CNN Website yesterday:

"Is the Iraqi insurgency taking a toll on U.S. troops? Is there a withdrawal plan? Donald Rumsfeld joins Wolf Blitzer."

Who is the last person with any interest in telling the truth about Washingtons objectives and the military's conduct in Iraq? Why Donald Rumsfeld, of course. That's who was on CNN. Is anyone suprised?


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