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Offlinekimby
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Registered: 06/13/05
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satori?
    #4307579 - 06/17/05 03:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

hey guys, i was reading up on the levels of trips and on level 5 it spoke of "Satori enlightenment". So i did some research on this and all i have found is that it means the inner, intuitive experience of enlightenment. Now I realize that it is "inexplicable" so just breaking it down into basics, can anyone expound on the exact definition?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: satori? [Re: kimby]
    #4309562 - 06/18/05 12:56 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Satori is a term that is generally used in Zen Buddhism to refer to an immediate, intuitive understanding of 'ISness.' That is not an intellectual understanding, but is an 'AHA!' experience. Now, I have had such moments over the years without psychedelics - they are rare but not miraculous.

It should be noted that Satori in the Zen tradition is not equivalent to the 'Jhanas' or 7 different states of 'absorption' that are found in Vajrayana Buddhism. These are described as being more inner-directed than satori and the higher ones are devoid of sensory impressions - they are 'hyperpranic' states of consciousness experienced as various forms of sound or light. The Jhanas are phenomenologically similar (if not identical) to degrees of Nirvikalpa Samadhi
(vs. Nirvitarka, Savikalpa, Savitarka or Sahaj Samadhis) in Hindu Yoga schools.

Different traditions define their superconscious states differently. Among Christian mystics, one can read Saint Teresa's Interior Castle and each increasingly unitive state is referred to as a "mansion" (from the Biblical words of Jesus "In my Father's house are many mansions.") Meister Eckhardt speaks differently, as does Dionysus the Areopagite. The Roman Catholic Church has its nomenclature and the Eastern Orthodox have their own.

Personally, I am most familiar with the Yogas belonging to Hinduism and I have tended to guage my experiences by their terminology, although I have had unforgettable transforming Experiences that were best described by Vajrayana Buddhism, Christianity and Judaism over a period of 30+ years. Satori belongs to Zen.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: satori? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4310160 - 06/18/05 05:32 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The Jhana's are not emphasises, and they dont even get a mention within Tibetan , Vajrayana Buddhism at all, as a matter of fact. Sorry Markos, but your wrong on this one. The jhana states are typically emhpasised with the Therevadan tradtion as well as most Hindu traditions. The Jhana States of 'absorbption' are seen as mere distractions to enlightened nature within Tibetan Buddhism as a whole. Single pointed concentration practice is seen as merly a tool for the deeper insight meditations within Tibetan Buddhism. Purification and Deity Transformation practices get the most emphaiss within Vajrayana Buddhism, as well as the typical Shamata and Vipassana practices respeticvly. Jhana typically belongs more to the Therevadan traditions, as well as some other Mahayana schools of Buddhism. But the absorbtions are seen as a major sidetrack to most of not all of Buddhism as a whole. One should not seek to become a Meidtation God in the higher relams of exitence. All meidttaions have to be disvoled into the clear light fo enlightnment to become fully manifest.:heart:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (06/18/05 04:56 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: satori? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4311072 - 06/18/05 04:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I once had such an experience while skydiving. It was similar to some of the more intense realizations I have had while on LSD.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: satori? [Re: egghead1]
    #4312328 - 06/19/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well, since I'm not attempting to be 'right,' just accurate, and since I double checked with one of my late teacher's book before I posted, you can debate with Lama Govinda's work The Psychological Attitude of Early Buddhist Philosophy, but I think he knew better than the both of us.

Moreover, the term 'Jhana' is Buddhist. The Theravadin school that I'm familiar with - translated from a book by a friend-of-a-friend entitled: Keeping the Breath in Mind: Lessons in Samadhi by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo, translated from the Thai by Geoffrey DeGraff (Thanissaro Bhikkhu) - explains that the word Samadhi has a lesser meaning in Theravadin Buddhism than in Hindu Yoga where the Samadhis are the end goal. The author teaches two methods of the 'practice' of Samadhi. The word is clearly used differently here than in Hindu Yoga wherein the Samadhis are degrees of 'enstasy' or intrapsychic absorption.

Vajrayana has many branches from the original four schools of Nyingmapa, Gelugpa, Sakya and Kargyutpa. Each of the branches has many different practices, but they use Tibetan and Pali terms primarily, not the Sanskrit word Samadhi. We have different sources for our respective positions and I find it interesting to compare and contrast them. Feel free to cite your references since I am always into expanding my knowledge base.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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