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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 93,974
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What's this about.
    #4304183 - 06/16/05 05:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ravis, posted a site for the Tao Te Ching. I was reading it and something caught my eye. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

In this manner the sage governs people:
Emptying their minds,
Filling their bellies,
Weakening their ambitions,
And strengthening their bones.

If people lack knowledge and desire
Then they can not act;
If no action is taken
Harmony remains.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4304272 - 06/16/05 05:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In this manner the sage governs people:
Emptying their minds, 57 channels and nothin' on.
Filling their bellies, KFC now delivers
Weakening their ambitions, American Idol, anyone?
And strengthening their bones. "Got Milk?"

If people lack knowledge and desire
Then they can not act;
If no action is taken
Harmony remains.




:grin:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4304420 - 06/16/05 06:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What one must remember is that not only is the Tao Te Ching an apocryphal book to begin with, but the very way it was written allows for multiple translations of it. The printed book I have for chapter 3 is as follows:

Not exalting cleverness
causes the people not to contend.
Not putting high prices on hard-to-get goods
causes the people not to steal.
Not seeing anything to want
causes the mind not to be confused.
Therefore the government of sages
empties the mind and fills the middle,
weakens the ambition and strengthens the bones,
always keeping the people innocent and
passionless.
It makes the sophisticated not dare to contrive;
action being without contrivance,
nothing is disordered.


In this, I believe the sages are people like the prophets and the Buddha, who teach the people how to let go of their ambitions and reach enlightenment. It is through letting go of passion and desire and plotting that you can realize your unity with the Tao, and if applied on the scale of the government, the job of the government is to let go of its passions and not make essential goods hard to get. In turn, this would encourage the people to stop stealing and contending, returning them to a state of innocence in which they can experience a simpler life of harmony.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: What's this about. [Re: Ravus]
    #4304468 - 06/16/05 06:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You're all flip/flopped. Gov't has illegalized the only few substances that expand the 'middle' that you talk about. What role do you think these substances play?? Fucking huge ones!! What do you think the Gov't does behind closed doors?? How do you think these slime got to the top?? The middle WAS fucking always there. Then... Recently really, say sixties... ILLEGAL. Then... TV. Then ONE picture for everyone. No direct Gnosis from nature. No learning for ones Self. Priests turn rapists. Politician turns mass murderer. Youth will OVERCOME. Keep on the Path. You know that voice?? Listen too it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What's this about. [Re: Ravus]
    #4304879 - 06/16/05 08:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well this sounds like nothing going on in our world today.

I often wonder about learning and all the knowledge we carry around and feel so proud of, or value so much. I see very intelligent people here and all around. I don't see very many truly happy people.
So does this gaining knowledge lead to a path of fulfillment? Or is it the opposite? Living simply, a more natural existence within the natural world, or building greater and greater cities and cultures and machines. Is one truly superior?

Did the sages really believe that the common man could be enlightened? Or was this a way to prevent people from wreaking havoc?

Just some further questions. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4306907 - 06/17/05 10:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

People were enlightened; still are. Pyramids are all over the world, not just Egypt. Why do you think people built them?? If you think about it, the current system starts looking more and more like a pyramid upon closer investigation. One at the top, many at the bottom. The 'sages' eventually took away the secret to unlock latent knowledge. This created a platform on which to build their New World Order. An Order based on the spiritual blindness created by severing humans from their essence, and replacing it with propaganda, or a new picture. The patterns, however crafty the sages, remain. Nature tells no lie. Armageddon sure is the end of days. The end of days limited to One picture.


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: What's this about. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4306909 - 06/17/05 10:36 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

To answer your question:

The path does lead to fulfillment. Just that its hard to tell whether you are on The path, or a way that someone has put forth as misdirection.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: What's this about. [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4308132 - 06/17/05 05:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So sages here refers to the govt. leaders and priests?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyka
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4308172 - 06/17/05 05:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Dissonance is sometimes appreciated.

I certainly could use some harmonic dissonance in my life right now. Desire certainly would help as well. To find purpose in a world of impermanence is a self-imposed and non-existant bitch.

The only purpose I can come up with is to understand and then die, so knowledge is certainly a pre-requisite for me. The rest is just background noise.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: What's this about. [Re: psyka]
    #4308180 - 06/17/05 06:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How about experiencing pleasure, joy, love as purpose? :mushroom2:

Impermanence is just alright with me. :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4308268 - 06/17/05 06:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Its too bad nothing inspires me to feel those qualities.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: What's this about. [Re: psyka]
    #4308300 - 06/17/05 07:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:sad: It's not over yet. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4308387 - 06/17/05 07:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

And, exactly, when is "it" ever over?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What's this about. [Re: Icelander]
    #4308496 - 06/17/05 08:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

what's what about?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What's this about. [Re: psyka]
    #4308579 - 06/17/05 08:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, In yer human form, at death. Until then, in human form you can find love, joy, and pleasure. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What's this about. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4308592 - 06/17/05 08:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what's what about?




It seems like the sages are trying to control, the population, and dumb them down to keep them placid and controllable.

It just seemed somehow to contradict the Tao Te Ching in general. I wondered if anyone else saw this or maybe I didn't understand it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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