Home | Community | Message Board


Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Pink Floyd

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Hedonism
    #4300784 - 06/15/05 08:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that the pursuit of pleasure in all its forms is MY path to spirituality and growth.

I see so many people limiting their experience of life to guilt and passive pleasures. What if opening up to active, varied pleasures is one of the keys to happiness and growth?

If we can take pleasure in learning, our senses, altruism, humor, sex, play, hobbies, communication/connection with others, why not fully enjoy all of it?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4300791 - 06/15/05 08:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Because of repressive, sytemic, dogmatic, repression that teaches people hell awaits those who enjoy themselves..


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hedonism [Re: Kalix]
    #4300807 - 06/15/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, but we don't have to accept that belief system.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
Re: Hedonism [Re: Icelander]
    #4300856 - 06/15/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No, and I think most of us here don't, but it explains why, as Veritas stated, 'so many people limit their experience of life to guilt and passive pleasures.'


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hedonism [Re: Kalix]
    #4301078 - 06/15/05 09:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In the end one can't afford to be too concerned with what others do.

Many look to change the world before they are willing to undergo change. That's a tricky little game the ego likes to play. The carrot game. Just out of reach, forever. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,679
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4302179 - 06/16/05 02:18 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

probably the pursuit of awareness is more suitable, as there are so many little pleasures that are happenning that we do not notice since we are in pursuit of something else (which is not happenning) and have chosen to wear blinders to what is actually happpenning.

this may not be hedonism, but we do have to get over the complex against that word


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,321
Loc: On the Border
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4302240 - 06/16/05 02:37 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"by the cold and religious we were taken in hand
shown how to feel good,
and told to feel bad."
-Roger Waters


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4302341 - 06/16/05 03:07 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that the pursuit of pleasure in all its forms is MY path to spirituality and growth.
__________________________________________________________________

And you really walk your talk. Better than anyone I have ever met. :thumbup: :heart: :cool:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Hedonism [Re: Kalix]
    #4303453 - 06/16/05 01:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kalix said:
Because of repressive, sytemic, dogmatic, repression that teaches people hell awaits those who enjoy themselves..




Isn't that ironic, though?  I think those who repress themselves out of the fear of hellfire and damnation create hell on earth!
Freud may have had his faults, but he accurately predicted the effects of generations of sexual repression: Modern Society!

Depression is widespread, as are other mental health problems, and the opposite of dysfunctional is not healthy, but "fine" (spoken through clenched teeth!).

Remember the old commercial for Coca-Cola: "I'd like to buy the world a Coke" ?  I'd like to give the world a full-body orgasm!!  :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4303493 - 06/16/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Sometimes there is a line, and that line is a line of responsibility, and knowing when and when not to cross that line can greatly effect immediate vs. long term "pleasure"...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Hedonism [Re: Zero7a1]
    #4303521 - 06/16/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What a way to live! As soon as science invents a chip to place in my head that releases seratonin and dopamine at the touch of a button, life will be complete! Maybe a hose running to my balls that gives me an instant orgasm! Between dumping happy chemicals in my brain, and blowing loads in my pants, I only need to eat, shit, and sleep.

If pleasure is the purpose, surely this cannot be beat, correct? Constant state of eurphoria! Would anything be missing?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePedM
Interested In Your Brain
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 days, 38 minutes
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4303580 - 06/16/05 02:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Repressing our desires is destructive because it does not address the real problem with desire: craving. In itself, desires are not inherently destructive. For example, it is a very good thing to desire other living beings to be free from suffering.

Desires are destructive when we crave for their satisfaction, when we feel as though we cannot be happy until our desire has been satisfied. So long as we deprive ourself from indulging in our desires, we will have to live with the pain of craving. In this case, we will also have to live with the feelings of guilt and shame which motivate our repression in the first place. However, indulging in our desires is equally as destructive.

Hedonism is a disadvantageous philosophy because it is not possible to satisify all of our desires. When we crave for pleasure, we will seek out and eventually find sources of pleasure. Once we have found a source of pleasure, we will crave for more pleasure. When we have found sources of greater pleasure, we will crave for still more pleasure, and so on and so forth. It goes on like this until we have more craving than there are sources of pleasure to satisify our craving. At this point we experience a seemingly inescapable pain and disatisfaction. Pain and disatisfaction take the place of our craving as the motivating fource behind our actions, and in the pursuit of relief we begin to do very many destructive things.

Because it is inevitable that the source of pleasure will eventually run out, or that our apetite for it will exceed what's available to us, any philosophy which suggests a path to happiness by placing emphasis on the satisfaction of human desires is an incorrect one. The experience of pleasure is the seed for craving, and it's craving which is at the root of human self-absorption and suffering.

"What if we could seek pleasure but keep our craving in check by controlling our mind?" This is like soaking ourself in gasoline and then lighting a match with the belief that we will be safe if we hold the match away from our bodies. Eventually we will burn. It is not possbile to seek pleasure without causing ourselves to crave it, because by it's very nature the experience of pleasure is the satisfaction of craving. If we seek pleasure we will eventually crave it uncontrollably.

If repressing our hedonistic tendencies is one extreme, indulging in them actively is the other. If we have the recognition that the satisfaction of our sensual, material, and physical desires only brings us pain in the end, our hedonistic tendencies will disappear by themselves. This is the path between opposite extremes. It is not a repressive practice; it is a wise one.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,275
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4303622 - 06/16/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Pleasure can be addictive as any drug. Consuming with moderation is the key ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePedM
Interested In Your Brain
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 days, 38 minutes
Re: Hedonism [Re: MAIA]
    #4303629 - 06/16/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Seems to me that enjoying it as it comes and forgetting it as it passes is the best way.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hedonism [Re: Ped]
    #4303631 - 06/16/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If we have the recognition that the satisfaction of our sensual, material, and physical desires only brings us pain in the end,

----------------------------------------------------------------

The satisfaction of material desires does not bring pain. Addiction to satisfaction of material desires brings pain. Big difference. Life and all the pleasures of it are for the enjoyment of all. There are also times of pain in life. It's the holding on to one state to the exclusion of the other that causes suffering IMO. When pleasure comes take it, and revel in it. When it takes its leave, be open to what is next. Pleasure will return again and again.  :heart: A loving heart embraces yin and yang.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Hedonism [Re: Ped]
    #4303678 - 06/16/05 02:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
Desires are destructive when we crave for their satisfaction, when we feel as though we cannot be happy until our desire has been satisfied.




I believe we are talking about different philosophies. When pleasure is the highest priority, and your outlook is geared toward the pleasures available in each experience, desires and cravings are irrelevant. You are describing a neurotic approach to pleasure which insists upon reality conforming to pre-selected, specific experiences of pleasure, and to the frequent repetition of said experiences. This is not healthy, balanced hedonism, but dysfunctional escapism and neuroticism.

Quote:

Because it is inevitable that the source of pleasure will eventually run out, or that our apetite for it will exceed what's available to us, any philosophy which suggests a path to happiness by placing emphasis on the satisfaction of human desires is an incorrect one.




You assume that there are only finite sources of pleasure. What of spiritual pleasure? What of the pleasure of open-hearted surrender to the sensual? The sources of pleasure available to us every moment are limited only by our awareness and ability to appreciate.

Quote:

Wikipedia said:
Theories of Hedonism

Epicureanism is the best-known form of ancient hedonism. Epicurus identified pleasure with tranquility, and emphasized the reduction of desire over the immediate acquisition of pleasure. In this way, Epicureanism escapes the preceding objection: while pleasure and the highest good are equated, Epicurus claimed that the highest pleasure consists of a simple, moderate life, spent with friends and in philosophical discussion. He stressed that it was not good to do something that made one feel good if by experiencing it, one would belittle later experiences and make them no longer feel good. For example, sex might increase lust which in turn might cause one to be dissatisfied with one's sexual partner, leading to unhappiness.

The Utilitarianism of John Stuart Mill is sometimes classified as a type of hedonism, as it judges the morality of actions by their consequent contributions to the greater good and happiness of all. Note that this is considered to be "selfless" hedonism; whereas Epicurus recommends doing whatever makes an individual happiest (over the long run), Mill promotes actions which make everyone happy. Compare individualism and collectivism.

Some of Sigmund Freud's theories of human motivation have been called psychological hedonism; his "life instinct" is essentially the observation that people will pursue pleasure. However, he introduces extra complexities with various other mechanisms, such as the "death instinct".

Christian Hedonism is a term for a theological movement promoted by several prominent church leaders of past and present, the tenets of which are that humans were created by (the Judeo-Christan) God with the purpose of lavishly enjoying God through knowing, worshipping, and serving him. This philosophy recommends pursuing the happiness and love of God as the ultimate in human fulfillment. Similar to the Epicurean view, the highest pleasure is regarded as something long-term and found not in indulgence but in a life devoted to God.

Quite a few people equate hedonism with sexuality and having a very loose or liberal view of the morality of sex. On the other side of the spectrum would be antisexual, though the denial of sex as the highest pleasure in no way resigns one to fully abstaining from sex.




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OnlineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 51,421
Loc: Right Here - Right Now
Last seen: 6 minutes, 3 seconds
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4303814 - 06/16/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I'm a Hedonist.

Hedonism doesnt mean grabbing the first pleasure that comes along and milk it for all it's worth, it's adopting a life strategy where you strive for longterm stabile happiness. Decreasing desire is a major factor in aquiring chronic happiness. You do so by looking at your desires and finding the roots of their happifying principle. This root is always internal, outer world objects are just symbols of a mind manifesting itself.

If shortterm intense happiness was the question then opiates were the answer. In the long run however you will find that Opioid pleasures are on loan and you got to pay them all back -with a fat interest- through suffering.

If novel Opiates would not lead to tolerance and addiction, and every dose was like pristine, then world happiness has taken a giant leap forward for many people. Most mental and societal disorders would not exist if it were not for misery and unhappiness. If Osama Bin Laden had been a blissball of joy he'd never thought of committing 9/11, would even try to prevent it at all cost.

The qualities we see as "human goodness" all stem off a basic happiness and both alas are direly lacking in most people.
If you up the happiness, over time almost everyone will be benevolent and compassionate.

The closest thing we have to chemical Utopiates are modern antidepressant, but they still are grossly lacking.

The most important drug for happiness is not a drug at all, but a shift of concepts and priorities within yourself.
Happiness is within you.
What holds it back?


--------------------
CLICK ONE -->  :redpill:  :bluepill:  <-- GO PLACES
SEARCH ENGINE  SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  AMANI
PSYCHOSIS, SYNCHRONICITIES, SHAMANISM & THE SUPERNATURAL WA&F

From the Outcasts to the Incrowd, from the Clueless to the Helpful, it takes the whole Shroomery to help a n00b


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Hedonism [Re: Asante]
    #4303838 - 06/16/05 03:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

YES!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePedM
Interested In Your Brain
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 days, 38 minutes
Re: Hedonism [Re: Veritas]
    #4303992 - 06/16/05 04:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It seems that we are speaking about different kinds of hedonism. I like the description of hedonism quoted from wikipedia very much; it is much more balanced than the hedonism I've come to understand from my experiences with the word. I was speaking to the kind of hedonism that promotes the unbridled indulgence in every kind of pleasure, be it material, sexual, or otherwise, to the exclusion of all other pursuits not condusive to the hedonistic lifestyle and without regard for others' wellbeing. It is the kind of hedonism characterized by the "if it feels good, do it" ideology.

However, I still believe that a pleasure-oriented philosophy will eventually lead to spiritual and emotional bondage. Let me read up on it a bit more.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Hedonism [Re: Ped]
    #4304197 - 06/16/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for keeping an open mind!

IMO Hedonism has been slammed with propaganda by opponents, and those messages have formed the public opinion. A philosophy which proposes enjoying life to the fullest...what could be scarier??

What if we redefined it from "pleasure-seeking" to "pleasure-finding"? That is MY take on it...and I experience pleasure from many unlikely sources (including the funny smileys I may use to illustrate my posts here!  :grin:).


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop for: Pink Floyd

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Edit: Deleted.
( 1 2 all )
deCypher 2,176 21 05/02/08 12:55 AM
by deCypher
* Hedonistic/Ecstatic Imperative?
( 1 2 all )
Epigallo 2,358 29 04/29/07 11:18 PM
by psyka
* Spiritual prospects of a Hedonistic lifestyle Servator 774 5 10/03/02 05:04 PM
by In(di)go
* The Age of Hedonism (An Overlooked Epidemic) Amnesiac 1,226 16 05/07/03 10:31 PM
by Amnesiac
* Long Range Hedonism Icelander 1,226 14 04/29/06 01:48 PM
by bobjones
* Immediate gratification vs. instant pleasure
( 1 2 all )
deCypher 2,026 21 12/07/08 01:29 PM
by Bernackums
* Being Pleasure Centered
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Epigallo 6,437 108 08/25/08 04:11 PM
by deranger
* The Hedonistic Imperative Malachi 1,040 13 06/25/03 07:06 PM
by Malachi

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,832 topic views. 4 members, 3 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Phytoextractum
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.095 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 16 queries.