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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Success!! (There is a question in here too)
#4294664 - 06/14/05 10:18 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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9 of 9 jars with no contams using a stupid U-100 insulin syringe and the oven tek for syringe making, and Doc34's WBS tek for the jar preperation!
(That's right Anno, the oven tek produced 100% success!)
Incidentally, I like using the U-100 insulin syringes the needle makes a much, much smaller hole for possible contams to enter. I just made sure the spore concentration was high. Worked like a charm.
My question is this: How do you judge when the jars are 100% colonized? There are 6 out of 9 that have growth covering every visible area, (the other 3 are fine but progressing at varying slower rates.) but I'm sure you're supposed to wait longer than that to make sure the centers are done right?
They are 10 days old now. Give me your best ideas on how to tell when the jars are actually 100% colonized please.
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
Edited by Smallworlds (06/14/05 10:46 AM)
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sublime40oz
Traveler
Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 1,755
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4294777 - 06/14/05 11:16 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Another 4 days or so after the outside is colonized, seems to be a rough rule of thumb.
-------------------- Beyond the gray sky
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: sublime40oz]
#4294783 - 06/14/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sounds great man, they can be cased this weekend then, thanks a lot!
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 19 days, 21 hours
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4294798 - 06/14/05 11:27 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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>That's right Anno, the oven tek produced 100% success!
How do you know this? Did you make another set of syringes at the same time in your kitchen WITHOUT the use of the oven? No? So how do you know the oven helped in any way?
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Anno]
#4294817 - 06/14/05 11:39 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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In a sterile process any weak link in the chain should produce contaminations. The simple fact that no contaminations occured indicates to me that the oven tek is an O.K. process to use.
If I would have gotten contams it most likely would have been from either:
-Contaminated sporeprint -Bad syringe making technique -Contams entering during inoculation
And then it would be easy to blame the oven tek for it.
The fact that I did not get any contams means that all three steps were done correctly, and that all of the techniques used actually do work.
I use the process of elimination to deduce that the oven tek works.
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 19 days, 21 hours
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4294831 - 06/14/05 11:45 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Your deduction is flawed.
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Wojo
Self ProclaimedAsshole
Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Detroit Son
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Anno]
#4294857 - 06/14/05 11:58 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Other people have had absolutely no success with the oven tek (me for example)
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Anno]
#4294862 - 06/14/05 12:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can see why you say that, but I think the flaw is very small.
Rather than conduct tests using a control group, I'm going to continue using what I have seen work, and then after 10 or so times we can review how the oven tek has treated me.
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 19 days, 21 hours
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4294868 - 06/14/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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>but I think the flaw is very small.
You can think what you want, but you won't KNOW until you do a counter test.
>Rather than conduct tests using a control group, I'm going to continue using what I have seen work
Whatever, you obviously don't want to realize that what you are doing doesn't help the collective knowledge one bit.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Wojo]
#4294884 - 06/14/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wojo said: Other people have had absolutely no success with the oven tek (me for example)
It couldn't have been a bad print or some other reason?
I'm not trying to set anything in stone here, but I am merely happy to report a 100% successful experience in which the oven tek was a part of the process.
Here's how it went:
The oven was sterilized at 350 for 45 minutes, including a work tray. a shotglass was sterilized in a baggie with a capful of isopropyl 70% alcohol in it. a syringe was presterilized with boiling water and left filled with sterile water to cool.
The oven was turned off and the oven thermometer watched until it had cooled to 250 degrees. Then the oven door was opened, the shotglass was removed from the bag and placed on a makeshift coaster made from a coffee filter to prevent breakage, on the worktray. A sterile print made by microwaving index cards first was opened and the needle sterilized with alcohol. The needle was used to scrape spores into the shotglass, and then stirred around. The sporewater was then sucked-up into the syringe. The entire syringe making process once the sporesprint was opened was allowed just 20 seconds to complete, minimizing exposure.
The innoculations were performed as indicated in doc34's tek.
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4295068 - 06/14/05 02:20 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Day 5
What a 100% colonized WBS jar looks like. As IN when everything in it is completly colonized.
BTW, Oven TEK is flawed. I get good results on an open air kitchen counter, if you know how. I get better results on a sanitized bathroon counter, in still air. You were either lucky, or used a good sterile procedure that kept the needle from being exposed to open air (usualy wrapped in an alc swab).
A good Glove Box, beats OVEN TEK hands down.
--------------------
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: agar]
#4295090 - 06/14/05 02:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
BTW, Oven TEK is flawed. I get good results on an open air kitchen counter, if you know how. I get better results on a sanitized bathroon counter, in still air. You were either lucky, or used a good sterile procedure that kept the needle from being exposed to open air (usualy wrapped in an alc swab).
A good Glove Box, beats OVEN TEK hands down.
Agree with everything you stated!~
and a good glove box beats everything... but a flowhood.
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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LouiseLouise
starstruck
Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 3,898
Loc: Searching w/my good eye c...
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: agar]
#4295265 - 06/14/05 03:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree with that A tech that you did suggests that a heppa is prefered, but... That's where I started. This time around, I started with 1 syr. of cam. (made in a lab) and one print of OI on foil. 6 of 6 (the last two that barely made it to 95 % went to the great outdoors [so they weren't totally lost]) The IO syr. that I made with no heppa, as agar suggests, is about to fruit now. Two different cooks, but done in exactly the same manner.
And, nothing tops a flow hood or glove box
-------------------- "That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC
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ohmatic
searcher
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: LouiseLouise]
#4295603 - 06/14/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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you know, i have so far spent 1.5 years of cultivation without any aseptical ibstruments like a flowhood or even a santized glovebox and have sectored and multilied of chosen genetics of various kinds of fungi (not only cubensis) on peroxided agar.
only dowbnside is, you cant work off spores unless you got a sterlie master transfer of some spore mycelium.
anyway, im drunk peace ohm
-------------------- MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc:
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: ohmatic]
#4295745 - 06/14/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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>In a sterile process any weak link in the chain should produce contaminations.
Correct, but turning off the oven, and doing it on your kitchen counter, would not have been a weak link either, because your kitchen was clean enough. If your kitchen werent clean enough, youd have your weak link and youd get contams, with the oven off, or on with you sitting in front of it.
I do all my work open air in the bathroom, always have. Set it right on the back of the toilet and do my agar work open air, but I clean everything first. No air flow, no oven...just a clean area.
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ohmatic
searcher
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: scatmanrav]
#4295763 - 06/14/05 05:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
scatmanrav said: If your kitchen werent clean enough, youd have your weak link and youd get contams, with the oven off, or on with you sitting in front of it.
werd peace ohm
-------------------- MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: scatmanrav]
#4295775 - 06/14/05 05:03 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I used to do all my work in open air...in my clean kitchen. my kitchen was spotless...without any air movement of course.
and had very little contams.
---
I have seen one of my friends work in a dirty ass kitchen in open air and get great results... and I'd have never guessed that it was possible!~ I wouldn't have believed it...if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
lolzz
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Roadkill]
#4296874 - 06/14/05 09:18 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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O.K. guys, fine. I am stepping up to a glove box anyway soon, I just wanted to tell everyone the good news, and how it was achieved this time.
-------------------- Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility.. Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!! Trip Report
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4297130 - 06/14/05 10:07 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I had great luck in a bathroom using Oust liberally and letting it settle before getting going. Works like a charm and doesn't stink the place up like Lysol does.
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er
Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Blue Helix]
#4297257 - 06/14/05 10:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bathroom is probably the gross-est place...in my house lol...
I def. do it either in the kitcken or outside...
Well...use to...got a glove box now
I tried the oven tek, didn't work out for me...Glad it did for you
-Gnostic
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4297602 - 06/15/05 12:02 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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From a bacterial and mold perspective, the bathroom is seldom as dirty as the kitchen. Where there is food, there is mold and mold spores, period. Where there is a toilet there might be bacteria, but there seldom is mold which is tons worse.
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Blue Helix]
#4297788 - 06/15/05 12:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good point ...
But what if I told you I barely cleaned my bathrooms...compared to my kitchen...
-Gnostic
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Blue Helix
bold hand
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
#4297834 - 06/15/05 01:02 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually, IGnosticAbhorI, if you told me that, I'd say you are normal. Sociological studies have shown that a typical house is far less clean than most believe. People tend to clean their house or apartment when company arrives which furthers the clean-home conception, but most are only super clean in the fantasy portrayed by movies, sitcoms, and commercials. The phenomenon is rather like the way all the people in movies are just about ten times as attractive as normal.
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CLUTCH
Stranger
Registered: 04/11/05
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4298001 - 06/15/05 02:26 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smallworlds said: O.K. guys, fine. I am stepping up to a glove box anyway soon, I just wanted to tell everyone the good news, and how it was achieved this time.
YEY!!
You guys converted him.
I don't think, no wait. I KNOW I will never try the Oven TEK.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Smallworlds]
#4298165 - 06/15/05 04:01 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wrote this yesterday, but the forum was down so I couldn't post it... it is a bit dated now after all the other posts to this thread, but it still has some good info in it...
There is a large difference in being able to grow a fungus and understanding the scientific method. Without performing a scientific experiment, with both a control group and a test group, you cannot make any claims other than you got lucky. Even if you do a scientific experiment and publish your results, the results are meaningless until your procedures have been peer reviewed and independently verified as accurate.
What is it about a laminer flow hood that keeps contamination away from your work area? If you answered "a sterile laminer air flow" then you were correct. If you answered "sterile air flow" or anything related but left out the word "laminer" then you are incorrect.
Laminer air flow is air that flows evenly, without turbulance. (A filter is typically used to ensure that the airflow is sterile.) When a spore lands in a laminer air flow, it is wisked away from the work area quickly. When a spore lands in a turbulant air flow, it bounces around, up and down, and lands where ever it gets lucky. If you are lucky, then it lands away from your work area. If you are unlucky, then it lands on your actual work.
So the big question here is, "Does an oven produce a sterile laminer air flow." The answer is obviously "I don't know." Can we test for laminer air flow... Yes, this is very easy to see... simply setup your oven as if you were doing work, then light some incense and stick it in the oven and let it burn. Watch the smoke... does it come up and go straight up, or does it spin around and around.
Now... you may be a lucky one that has an oven that does magically produce laminer flow. I haven't see this, but I won't rule out that such a beast may exist. If you are, then you will see the smoke trails go straight up. If you are like me, they will bounce all over the place and produce eddies in the air. Remember though, the flow of air still is not sterile. Just because you have rising air around your work area doesn't mean that the rising air is clean.
You can also use soap bubbles... they work better than smoke, in my opinion. Get a bubble blower and blow a stream of small bubbles into the oven airflow. Do the bubbles land on the work area or are they wisked away. For me, they always land on my work area. If a bubble does, so will a spore or bacteria. My oven actually sucks the bubbles floating near the floor and drops them directly on my work area. Over 90% of all contaminates are located within 1 foot of the floor (gravity).
Finally, if the oven tek works for you, then by all means continue to use it. At the same time, don't ignore the people that claim it doesn't work for them. Every single time that I have used the oven tek, I have contaminated. Once I built a real flow hood my problems went away. For me, the oven tek doesn't work, but if it did, I wouldn't bother with anything else.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Seuss]
#4298229 - 06/15/05 06:02 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'd say you are normal.
Why thank you Blue Helix...
-Gnostic
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc:
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: Seuss]
#4298367 - 06/15/05 08:08 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well written Suess...
>If you answered "sterile air flow" or anything related but left out the word "laminer" then you are incorrect. Laminer air flow is air that flows evenly, without turbulance.
I was not aware of this....I knew thats what a flowhood did, but never used the word laminer or knew what it meant. I always just say it produces "a wall" of sterile air...much better though..
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doc34
Fungitarian
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Myceliaville !!!
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Re: Success!! (There is a question in here too) [Re: scatmanrav]
#4298633 - 06/15/05 09:49 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Smallworlds,
I never used the "Oven Tek",I got $1.00 in a Glovebox that has never let me down.
Nice to know my tek worked for you though!
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