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OfflineSubterfuge
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Okay, New Species of Amanitas???
    #4293638 - 06/14/05 01:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm new here, but I figured this would be a great place to seek some expert advice.
I enjoy mushroom hunting, and I usually collect a great deal of mushrooms every time I go, and just check to see if I can ID them on MycoWeb. I usually am hoping for Amanitas, but I realize they're not so common in New Jersey... However...
Last year I was wandering around in my favourite park, Mahlon Dickerson, Jefferson, NJ. It must have been no sooner than July, and no later than the end of August. I found at least 10-20 mushies of all sizes, tiny bulbs to 6-8" caps that were up to maybe 8-10" tall. I even found one that was about a foot wide!! They looked like Amanita Pantherina sometimes does when it's young. They were moderately dark brown, and very mucousy/shiny. Each and every one had that Amanitas spotting, where the spotting was evenly distributed and about the size of the spots that grow on amanitas muscaria var formosa. Even the young ones were even. It had a viel and a bulbous vulva. I can't provide anymore information, as I never got to look over them very well, I left them to go get something to put them in, and I never saw them again!!

I'm going to attempt to hunt them down again this year and take a picture or two... It just seems so strange to find a brown agaric that looks identical to amanita in every way, but not be light brown like pantherina...

Anyone who can help me ID this mushroom, thank you...
Also, amatoxins are not = to muscimol and ibotenic acid, right?
Therefor doing the test with HCL would be a good way to make sure they're not posionous amanitas?


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OfflineSubterfuge
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #4293739 - 06/14/05 01:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm assuming no one's gonna have a clue do to the lack of imagery and description, I promise to get some then if I can find them again, and bring em up to the forums for ID!

Thanks everyone


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #4293779 - 06/14/05 01:46 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Keep searching, maybe one day you'll come across this elusive amanita, the "Berkshire Blue" Amanita, briefly profiled on the Berkshire Mycological Society web site:



Seriously though, most higher fungi are not yet scientifically described, you may get to add your name to this species, if it turns out to be truly unfounded.  Good work, get some pics

:rasta:,

mycomancer


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #4293798 - 06/14/05 01:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to be referring to the Meixner test with the HCl. That test is very sensitive for amatoxins, but gives a lot of false positives and also detects amounts that are too small to cause harm. Just for fun, there are also deadly Amanitas that have toxins other than amatoxins, of still unknown structure.

As far as your description of the testing, yes, amatoxins are not the same at all as ibotenic acid or muscimol.

Identifying brown capped Amanitas can be a major challenge. There are a lot of species and Rod Tulloss (the authority on North American Amanitas) says there are at least a few dozen unnamed species that fit that description.

For obvious reasons, experimenting with eating them is probably not a very good idea.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineSubterfuge
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #4293813 - 06/14/05 01:54 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I know most people on here are the type to say, Oh can I eat it? Can I, Can I? Your information is valued thank you, I'll try to picture it for everyone ASAP, in it's habitat, on my desk in many angles, and printed... if I had a decent microscope I'd go further :P...

Thanks again!


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #4295087 - 06/14/05 04:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Welcome to the shroomery Subterfuge!
Its good to have a new poster that has some previous experience with mushrooms. Most newbies here come in, without reading the rules, and start asking the dumbest quiestions. The only mistake i found in your post was the name of some park, but i dont think anyone really cares.
Youll do just fine here.

The Amanitas you describe could be any number of things, as Mycomancer and ToxicMan described. Ive found several species of brown Amanitas that i couldnt find a reference for anywhere.
If you did descover a new species (not entirely unlikely with Amanita), you will probably only get to name it if it has some significant properties that are interesting enough to catch the eye of the mycological society ( i.e. medical purpose, hallucinogenic/psychoactive, really pretty, etc.)


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4295168 - 06/14/05 04:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Really pretty"

That's what I was thinking about that Berkshire. That is a beautiful specimen :thumbup:
Thanks for sharing myco

:sun:


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"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #4296641 - 06/14/05 10:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think I read somewhere that the blue Amanita is a hoax. Has the Berkshire's existence been verified?


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: shroomydan]
    #4296808 - 06/14/05 11:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This is the only information i have on the Bershire blue

Quote:


This photograph was taken by the Late Professor McGinty, the only person ever to have found the infamous "Berkshire Blue" Amanita. While many mycologists believe that this is a fraudulent picture, others come to the Berkshires to walk the same woods frequented by the late, great Mcginty, with hopes of finding this elusive mushroom for themselves.





The Man claims a sighting of a forest-green amanita:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post1707626

With so much of the fungi world undescribed, its entirely likely that we walk by unknown species and varieties every day.  Do you think we've found every psilocybe species?  Just ask Mjshroomer

:rasta:,

mycomancer


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Edited by Mycomancer (06/14/05 11:19 PM)


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #4296860 - 06/14/05 11:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

From experience, NJ is a decent place for amanitas. I saw over a hundred A. muscaria var formosa last year, all in close proximity to planted pine trees (eastern white pine?). I've also found plenty of A. virosa, some A. phalloides (these are pretty, but obviously you wouldn't want to collect them), A. rubescens, A. flavaconia, and what I think may be A. Cokeri. Perhaps what you found was the A. Velutipes described at mushroomexpert.com. It will probably be pretty hard to figure out where it fits in, if it does.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4297487 - 06/15/05 01:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mycomancer said:
With so much of the fungi world undescribed, its entirely likely that we walk by unknown species and varieties every day.  Do you think we've found every psilocybe species?  Just ask Mjshroomer

:rasta:,
mycomancer




I agree with you completely. We understand so little about the field of mycology. It shows just how ignorant some of us are that we could even give a name to something we dont really understand. That mystery factor is what makes mushrooms so much fun.


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Offlinepluteus
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4297997 - 06/15/05 04:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I live in Berkshire. There are no blue Amanitas here except for Photoshopped ones.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4302474 - 06/16/05 03:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

As far as new species go, it depends a bit on where you are. In Europe if you find a mushroom that can't be identified fairly directly it's a occasion for excitement, and they are sent to an expert on the genus to see if something new has indeed been found. In the US we regularly find things we can't identify. Here in Colorado we estimate that there will be about 3000 species total when they've all been cataloged in the far distant future - we've cataloged a bit over 1000 species so far. Still, finding truly new species is not that easy. I come up with about 5 to 10 species new to the state each year (on average) and have yet to find anything that is definitely a completely new species.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineSubterfuge
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Subterfuge]
    #7309862 - 08/19/07 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well, it's been over 2 years since I've been here.  Lots has happened in my life, and the main reason for this update is to conclude the brown Amanitas topic... rather disappointingly.

Since coming back, I looked at the list of Amanitas at mushroomexpert.com, and found nothing that really held the brown color in maturity like this one did.  Also it was a very very deep color.  I checked throughout many seasons, and very frequently over the past two years.  The park was a park I frequented to mushie hunt and just get some exercise and fresh air.  Never again did I see the strain, which bothers me because it was so widespread at the time when I grabbed up some.  I think this has taught me a lesson in mushie ethics.  Pick what you will use, and use what you will pick; remembering that mushies can become extinct too!  (Note: Don't make your usage actual consumption if it's poisonous! :wink: )

On another note, I've moved from Jersey to the mountains of New Mexico.  It's really a bummer for a nature buff like me, and I've decided to move up to Washington to enjoy the beauty of the PNW.

I'm not gonna make it for this season methinks, but next season expect to see some posts of the hunts!  I feel I maybe adept/inclined to mushie identification, so I'm really looking forward to trying my shot at it and getting some input.  The Mid-Atlantic was really drab as far as psychedelic growth goes.  I'm excited to find some real A. Muscaria, maybe a few Pantherinas, and especially those LOVELY looking Ps. Cyanescens.

Thanks for the help in the past guys, I look forward to watching the season in lieu of partaking myself!  (And sorry for never getting pictures of what could have been A. Pantherina var Subterfuge!)


--------------------
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InvisibleAmatoxin
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: shroomydan]
    #7309927 - 08/19/07 10:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
I think I read somewhere that the blue Amanita is a hoax. Has the Berkshire's existence been verified?




I find them all the time :wink:



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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Amatoxin]
    #7311184 - 08/19/07 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Holy shit...are those real?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Okay, New Species of Amanitas??? [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7311297 - 08/19/07 06:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

no. that was previously posted in this thread about the blue Amanitas where several people busted out with photoshop. they did make a few kind of cool images.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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