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Invisibleagar
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H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY
    #4292276 - 06/13/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

At least to me, it appears some of the problems or failures associated with the use of horse manure as substrate is associated with any particular individuals ability to judge if the horse manure available to him/her is naturally suitable in it?s present state, or requires addition treatment, or composting before being put to use.

No horse manure is identical in composition to any other. There are considerable variables in nitrogen content, carbon/nitrogen ratio?s, microbial content & activity, moisture content, etc., etc.

One person may have success with horse manure he describes as "well weathered intact nuggets & muffins that smell earthy". While another person may have total failure with horse manure he would describe as the same.

The problem is?. NO HORSE MANURE IS IDENTICAL, and the difference is most often the cause of ones failure, and the others success.

It takes considerable experienced to be able to judge (by sight, feel, texture, dryness, smell) if horse manure that has been exposed to NATURAL BIOLOGICAL DECOMPOSITION is suitable as mushroom substrate, or not.

NATURAL BIOLOGICAL DECOMPOSITION is a process that occurs naturally. ?Composting? is a method whereby components of various amenable organic materials are biologically decomposed under controlled conditions. The key phrase above is "under controlled conditions." This distinguishes composting from the "biological decomposition" processes which occur naturally.

If horse manure has not undergone natural decomposition to a very specific degree, or is only partially naturally decomposed, it will require treatment, or composting to become suitable as substrate.

Otherwise, when hydrated - spawned & incubated metabolic microbial activity (composting / heat generation / fermentation) generally commences to the degree introduced spawn dies, resulting in total failure.

Consequently, if you are unsure, or doubt the horse manure you have gathered from a field, or pile somewhere is ready to use as substrate, or not. It is best to treat it by spreading it out thinly over some porous material (landscape cloth) for drainage, garden hose drenching it (leaching), allowing it to air/sun until completely dry, then repeat that cycle several times, to insure it is.

Beware of your own proclivity to rush into using your new found horse manure as a bulk substrate, simply because you want big quick bumper crops like those often pictured in post?s by those who have great success with horse manure substrate.

Realize beforehand, individuals who have repeated success with horse manure substrate either lucked into a supply that has undergone the required degree of natural degradation, or recognize it needs additional treatment, then patiently, and methodically do so - before use. That is why they succeed.

HINT?..If you have gathered weathered horse manure that fits the description of being well weathered, leached & dried, that has no urine, ammonia or foul fecal odor and think its suitable as/is.

Give it a simple test.

Fill quart jar half full of it, then add water enough to cover the content & screw a lid on loosely. Then place that jar somewhere with temperatures about the same as you would incubate a bulk substrate in. Leave it for 12/24 hours, then smell it.

If it smells earthy, somewhat like garden soil. It is good to go.

If it has any detectable urine, ammonia, foul fecal odor, stink and/or is beginning to bubble/ferment from microbial activity, your supply requires additional treatment, because it's still to fresh. Even if it looks aged.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: agar]
    #4292285 - 06/13/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

nice post!~

:thumbup: :thumbup:

I've been seeing alot of newbies having problems with horse poo lately.

you stated some of the reasons why.

I'd also like to add...that too much water content left in after pastuerizing the horse poo will cause bacterial contams.

tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleShnezbit
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: agar]
    #4292295 - 06/13/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

hey agar are you going to be selling poo or some sort of substrate?


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: agar]
    #4292298 - 06/13/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

With a few rains and sunshine, about how long can it take poo to naturally be ready. As I can watch my supply come straight from the source, so to speak, knowing this would be a great help. I could sit at my computer desk and make a map with dates and location and know when it was ready.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: Roadkill]
    #4292306 - 06/13/05 06:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That and you don't want to incubate at the same temp's as jars and such.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058


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OfflineKalix
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: Shnezbit]
    #4292318 - 06/13/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shnezbit said:
hey agar are you going to be selling poo or some sort of substrate?


Agar's Myco-Supply Store

It's not yet stocked, but he's been workin' on it..


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: HippieChick]
    #4292321 - 06/13/05 06:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

H.C...that's not you is it.... :rolleyes:...:whoa:

Nice post Agar..

I like the part about the Qt jar test :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4292326 - 06/13/05 06:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Agar should be the next Vendor :smirk:

-Gnostic


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OfflineKalix
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4292327 - 06/13/05 06:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
H.C...that's not you is it.... :rolleyes:



-Gnostic




  C'mon we all know what H.C.'s living room looks like by now.. The peace flag is a dead give-away :smile:


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: Kalix]
    #4292338 - 06/13/05 07:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol.

wow...I knew she was hot...but geez lol

:thumbup: , Who said that all hot chicks were dumb :lol:

-Gnostic


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Invisiblepeeper
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4292344 - 06/13/05 07:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Great information. I just had questions about this myself the other day.Thanks much!


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4292346 - 06/13/05 07:04 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Of course that's me.
Quart test sounds good, but i usually gather from many piles. Are you supposed to test some from each sample. I'll have more jars of poo testing then WBS incubating,lol.

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: HippieChick]
    #4292348 - 06/13/05 07:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:

I Agree, should be stickied..I've seen so many Q's about it Way to often.

-Gnostic


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4292360 - 06/13/05 07:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How long does it take to weather?

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058


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OfflineKalix
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: HippieChick]
    #4292380 - 06/13/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I've had good luck, but I just use H-poo that has Actinomyces running through it.. Is that a good indicator of suitability for mycological use?


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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Invisibleagar
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: Kalix]
    #4292418 - 06/13/05 07:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Firefang is a very good sign. Plus, adds trace elements & nutes that Myc love to gobble right up.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: Shnezbit]
    #4292447 - 06/13/05 07:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shnezbit said:
hey agar are you going to be selling poo or some sort of substrate?




i'm not sure, so don't quote me on this, but i thimk High Mountain = Agar :smile:

i collect manure from a rodeo arena that only gets used once a year.
i don't discriminate h/p or c/d, by the time i pick it up, you couldn't tell the difference :smile:


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: agar]
    #4292449 - 06/13/05 07:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Agar, how long before your store is up and running? I sure would like to have a resource for cost effective materials. Hopefully you'll be doing enough volume to keep costs down.

I really could use a good source for hard to find items that I can't get locally.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: agar]
    #4292491 - 06/13/05 07:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Approximatley how long does it take for firefang to develop?


:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: H/POO PROBLEMS & WHY [Re: KaptKid]
    #4292507 - 06/13/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I hate to bombard with questions...:rolleyes:

Firefang...Does it look white and...not powdery, but looks like it...

:grin:

Tc man

-Gnostic


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