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 Twirling
Barred Spiral
Registered: 02/03/03
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 Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? 
#4289308 - 06/12/05 10:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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One of the strongest reasons I use psychoactive substances is the effect it has on meditation. I was curious as to what substances other people find to be effective on meditation, as well as the least effective.
You can choose up to 3 of any of the drugs, in either poll. If you choose other, or one of the various research chemicals, please specificy.
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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.
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 HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag
 
Registered: 08/19/03
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Loc: Afghanistan 
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 Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4290065 - 06/13/05 02:34 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd rather be sober.
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zee_werp
a fractalcreature
Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1,026
Loc: Aotearoa
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#4290185 - 06/13/05 04:12 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mescaline, mescaline or peyote?
It depends what you mean by 'meditation'.
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moog
Stranger
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4290527 - 06/13/05 09:38 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Using drugs to meditate kind of defeats the purpose of meditation.
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: moog]
#4290665 - 06/13/05 10:22 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I find drugs are a catylyst for meditation, they enable a deeper "trance", but also allow for sober meditation to go deeper as well.
When I meditate, it's not in the typical form to "silence the mind". I close my eyes, roll them around, focusing on different areas, and practice focusing my breath. It's hard to describe really, but it's different than standard meditation.
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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.
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moog
Stranger
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Posts: 1,296
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4290760 - 06/13/05 10:44 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've tried meditation once while under the influence of DXM and once after smoking cannabis. Both times I found it extremely hard to keep my focus. My thought patterns weren't any different than if I was just sitting around dissociated/stoned anyway so I decided to give up.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4291178 - 06/13/05 12:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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This poll assumes drugs are good for meditation. Sobriety is not even an option...what a twisted standard. No drug facilitates meditation as meditation requires a clear mind.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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the_phoenix
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4292159 - 06/13/05 04:14 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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When Ram Dass gave potent LSD to a spiritual master in the East, the drugs had hardly any effect. Drugs neither necessarily aid or hinder meditation, but rather the subjective qualitative quality of their effects vary according to the level of consciousness of the meditator.
Meditation is about looking through the Maya to the subtle and serene Nothingness fundamental to and connecting all. Certain drugs help clear this Maya, and if the meditator is unprepared then the Nothingness may manifest in chaotic fashion as external stimuli. But if the meditator is ready to properly wield, in the most subtle of ways, the Nothingness delivered, then the Nothingness doesn't manifest so much as the meditator moves towards it, into a subtler level of consciousness.
Often the subtler parts of one's mind are mistaken for manifestation external to one's being. As one's wisdom grows, the vast extent of their essential self is more fully realized and the manifestations are understood as part of one's self. In fact, these parts of our minds have frequently been labelled, or mislabelled depending on your point of view, as dieties.
How much divinity, after all, do we each possess? One way of finding out is through investigation of the subtler aspects of one's mind, which is what meditation is about--turning conscious observation inwards. Drugs help bring out these aspects, but if the meditator isn't ready to realize them then drugs hinder meditation.
I voted for DXM. 
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Infrared
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4292221 - 06/13/05 04:27 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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screw dxm..that stuff makes you feel like it took a giant smelly crap in your brain.....
ketamine ownz it
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4292265 - 06/13/05 04:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"When Ram Dass gave potent LSD to a spiritual master in the East, the drugs had hardly any effect."
The fact that a known drug freak said this lends it no credibility. It demonstrates a clear bias.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/13/05 10:32 PM)
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the_phoenix
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Infrared]
#4292498 - 06/13/05 05:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeepBlue42 said:
screw dxm..that stuff makes you feel like it took a giant smelly crap in your brain.....
ketamine ownz it
I'm on DXM right now. I notice that it lets you think without using words. And whereas you 'go with the flow' of the mushroom, for example, with DXM it's very different. It's a disassociative so you go with, how should I say this, your own flow. You get to go with your own mind.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4292766 - 06/13/05 07:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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meditation is one thing (devoted ecstacy)
drug use is another (inebriated ecstacy).
naturally you can mix anything with anything thw basic rule of mind and freedom.
but
if you want to make things better in the world,
you want very little downtime, easy recovery (and orientation to synchronicity which is normal with trypts).
that eliminates most drugs (except for the synchronicity).
I would say you get salvia and dmt as the least intrusive time wise, and salvia as least intrusive health wise,
and alcohol (except for the lack of synchronicity) as the most highly camoflauged of the inebrients.
meditation is still up to the operator of the mind.
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polyfuze
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: redgreenvines]
#4293734 - 06/13/05 11:36 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ive been on pure Dxm and used brainwave generator, it took me to weird places and i had several closed eyed hallucinations, they were life like hallucinations and seemed different and darker than tryptamine hallucinations,lots of machinery and weird architecture. Pure Dxm is also a lot better and cleaner than using cough syrup as a source of it.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: polyfuze]
#4293757 - 06/13/05 11:42 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Chugging cough syrup=enlightenment?
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4293876 - 06/14/05 12:13 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here, I totally agree with Hue.
It was not possible for me on any drug to enter the first step of meditation.
To just calm my mind without loosing awareness.
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Wysefool
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4294025 - 06/14/05 01:15 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mushrooms are really good too because they let you feel that flowing, everything flowing and in harmony and you can get some really simple but beautiful revelations.
DXM has definitely been good to me for meditation, you have to remember a lot of people lack the enzyme for DXM and don't enjoy the trip at all, or they chug syrup and get sick.. It's best to use powder, or do your own extraction. I can lay down and meditate on it for hours and you really do feel like you're going on a strange journey through the inner space of your mind.
I stuck with things I've tried before but I'm sure a lot of psychedellic are better for meditation. My last choice was MDMA, which I think would be good for a sort of therapy meditation. I've never tried it myself but I think everybody know's MDMA's therapeutic value.
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4294782 - 06/14/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
This poll assumes drugs are good for meditation. Sobriety is not even an option...what a twisted standard. No drug facilitates meditation as meditation requires a clear mind.
The point of the poll wasn't to determine whether drugs are good for meditation, nor was it to debate the standard that meditation must be done sober. It was simply to explore which drugs are effective in meditation, and which drugs aren't.
I'm surprised to hear many boundries and rules to meditation. Exploration of what the mind is capable of, sober or not, is the premise behind meditative states. I have found that my version of meditation is 180 degrees from standard notions of meditation. It is not about silencing the mind, it requires a lot of physical energy rather than relaxation, and I listen to heavy music rather than new age. Neither one is right or wrong, but the signifigance is that meditation should be about exploration, not limits of how things should, or shouldn't be done.
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the_phoenix
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4294806 - 06/14/05 11:31 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here's an example of what DXM did for me last night. I was on the third plateau, and decided to meditate. I sat on my bed, cross-legged, with my back erect up against my wall. I carved my own nich in time which I would devote to meditation. I was sitting there to meditate, and every fiber of my being was directed to the task. Hehe, no measely calming of the mind here. Thanks to the shear power of DXM (my own mind), I took grasp of the journey of my spiritual evolution and ascended. I sat there and progressively evolved further into my higher self. This morning I still feel it, because after all it was a change I consciously willed to happen and is part of reality, not a drug-enduced fantasy that wears off with the high.
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4294819 - 06/14/05 11:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Very well written.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: Best/Worst Drugs For Meditation? [Re: Twirling]
#4296715 - 06/14/05 08:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"It is not about silencing the mind"
I am afraid that the preliminary stages of learning to meditate are all about silencing the mind...often this involves counting the breath and learning to let thoughts pass in a observational manner. Music would be a no-no as well. I practiced Zen style meditation for about 5 years. I have never heard or read anything to indicate that meditation does NOT involve silencing the mind.
"It was simply to explore which drugs are effective in meditation"
Yes, but the option for NO DRUGS was not given which is making a big assumption. Ultimately, meditation is a practical exercise which is NOT about exploring alternate states of conciousness, but learning to focus the mind in an effective manner. Drugs are foreign substances which are alien to our bodies...you will NOT perform optimally while on drugs. So many people here are so pro-drug that they see drugs as nutrients....that is a fallacy that can get you in serious trouble.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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