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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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zoo's
    #4286306 - 06/12/05 12:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Just been to a zoo, the horror!!

those animals, angry, going around in circles, hungry too, and a lot of fatt and well fed people going around with their camera cellphones taking bad pictures, and feeding animals with chips and stuff like that, all ignorant of the pain of the animals.

The only animals I've seen that were enjoying themselfs there was a lion and his female that were about to have sex, but then looked to the public and decided not to do it in front of them. Then the lion came to the fence, turned his but and pissed on a couple of people right there. That's called justice.

Anyway, in your opinion, is it immoral to go to the zoo, paying the ticked and by that encouraging the zoo to keep runing?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/12/05 12:43 PM)


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InvisibleArp
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286348 - 06/12/05 12:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You can define moral anyhow you want.
Some belive it's wrong to eat meat, some belive it's wrong to
exploit children in development countries.
You support this system by being a consumer of anything and working
for that system.
You don't have to go to the zoo to be immoral you can just by
a news-paper or do some labour. It is the same system that allow
the existance of zoo:s and all these things.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: zoo's [Re: Arp]
    #4286356 - 06/12/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
You can define moral anyhow you want.
Some belive it's wrong to eat meat, some belive it's wrong to
exploit children in development countries.
You support this system by being a consumer of anything and working
for that system.
You don't have to go to the zoo to be immoral you can just by
a news-paper or do some labour. It is the same system that allow
the existance of zoo:s and all these things.




oh lord, is there a full moon out tonight?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286360 - 06/12/05 12:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They should have a stall for humans.. display some gymnastics or something.. :P


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleArp
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Re: zoo's [Re: Doom]
    #4286374 - 06/12/05 12:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doom said:oh lord, is there a full moon out tonight?



Doesnt it make perfect sense? :crazy:


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OfflineKalix
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Re: zoo's [Re: Arp]
    #4286382 - 06/12/05 12:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Quote:

Doom said:oh lord, is there a full moon out tonight?



Doesnt it make perfect sense? :crazy:




  Yes... But if you actually pay to goto a zoo, you're directly supporting the immorality of the zoo itself, instead of the immorality of society as a whole..


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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OfflineDoom
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Re: zoo's [Re: Arp]
    #4286384 - 06/12/05 01:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Quote:

Doom said:oh lord, is there a full moon out tonight?



Doesnt it make perfect sense? :crazy:




nope, its grossly simplistic. Any society contains numberless interest groups fighting for power, whenever you support a different interest group, you create a different future.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286446 - 06/12/05 01:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How about aquariums where wild animals, like dolphin, are snatched from a billion cubic meter ocean and plopped into a tank of water for the rest of their lives.

In the ocean, they emit fantastically powerful bursts of ultrasound, both to play and to hunt. In the tanks, the first time they try this, the deafening echo quickly forces them into submission.

How about home aquariums, particularly salt water where the fish often come from countries where they're collected by dynamite stunning where most of the nearby fish and coral die. The few that survive the impact get sold in US aquarium shops. Or the alternative technique where the fish are stunned with cyanide also to the detriment of hapless nearby fish and coral.

And when their owners get tired of the expense and trouble of maintaining an aquarium, they dump the fish in the ocean where exotic species are currently decimating entire populations just outside my door on the reefs of Fort Lauderdale and around the world.

Or the cage-bound tropical parrots people keep as pets, never letting them so much as spread their wings for lack of room in the cage; many of these birds are captured wild in the jungles south America, stuffed in suitcases, and smuggled into the US. Naturally, large fractions of them die before they make it to their new prison in some selfish person's home.

All this, why? Because people, Americans especially, are too fucking lazy to go scuba diving to see the wonderful world around them, or take a vacation to Costa Rica rather than Disney World because they might have to venture off the pavement.

This is the same mentality that puts gigantic RVs in Yosemite and Everglades National Parks where people should be hiking instead.

Don't even get me started on this topic... grrrr! :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/12/05 01:39 PM)


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InvisibleArp
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Re: zoo's [Re: Doom]
    #4286453 - 06/12/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I guess :smile:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: zoo's [Re: Gomp]
    #4286456 - 06/12/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
They should have a stall for humans.. display some gymnastics or something.. :P




lol  :rotfl: gymnastics, that would be a sight  :thumbup:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: zoo's [Re: Arp]
    #4286460 - 06/12/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
You can define moral anyhow you want.





where were you when I was trying to convince people of shroomery that morality is subjective? Now you show up when I'm duscussing on the other side


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: zoo's [Re: Diploid]
    #4286471 - 06/12/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
How about aquariums where wild animals, like dolphin, are snatched from a billion cubic meter ocean and plopped into a tank of water for the rest of their lives.

In the ocean, they emit fantastically powerful bursts of ultrasound, both to play and to hunt. In the tanks, the first time they try this, the deafening echo quickly forces them into submission.

How about home aquariums, particularly salt water where the fish often come from countries where they're collected by dynamite stunning where most of the nearby fish and coral die and the few that survive the impact get sold in US aquarium shops. Or the alternative technique where the fish are stunned with cyanide also to the detriment of hapless nearby fish and coral.

And when their owners get tired of the expense and trouble of maintaining an aquarium, they dump the fish in the ocean where exotic species are currently decimating entire populations just outside my door on the reefs of Fort Lauderdale and around the world.

Or the cage-bound tropical parrots people keep as pets, never letting them so much as spread their wings for lack of room in the cage; many of these birds are captured wild in the jungles south America, stuffed in suitcases, and smuggled into the US. Naturally, large fractions of them die before they make it to their new prison in some selfish person's home.

All this, why? Because people, Americans especially, are too fucking lazy to go scuba diving to see the wonderful world around them, or take a vacation to Costa Rica rather than Disney World because they might have to venture off the pavement.

This is the same mentality that puts gigantic RVs in Yosemite and Everglades National Parks where people should be hiking instead.

Don't even get me started on this topic... grrrr! :mad2:





yea it is horrible, and some many "empathic" people walking there, but nobody understands what is really going on in there. Probably because little children are taken to the zoo so they get used to that idea in time when they can barely think, and later when they can think it is already a "normal" thing to them


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDoom
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286504 - 06/12/05 01:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

*Don't even get me started on this topic... grrrr!*

and how about the aqauriums/research institutes that do more to protect these animals than anyone else in the world?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: zoo's [Re: Doom]
    #4286524 - 06/12/05 01:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have mixed feelings about Zoos and aquariums as they do serve a good purpose. I have seen a few well maintained zoos that were not pathetic....now circus animals always piss me off.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: zoo's [Re: Doom]
    #4286551 - 06/12/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

aqauriums/research institutes

What aqauriums/research institutes? These privately owned places use the word 'institute' to dupe the public into thinking their $50/day admission is going to do some good for the animals rather than lining the pockets of owners at the expense of their tortured captives.

Even the public zoos are run for what? To pay the salaries of the board of directors, not to research animals. What can you learn about a lion in a cage other than animal psychosis?

If these people were really interested in helping animals, they would stop desensitizing the public to the plight of caged animals. They're so patently obvious that in recent years these places have all stopped calling the tricks they force their animals to perform tricks... they're now called 'behaviors' because it sounds more 'research institute' that way.

Everyone turn your attention to the left side of the tank and observe KooKoo the dolphin perform an amazing double-backflip behavior.  :mad2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: zoo's [Re: Gomp]
    #4286555 - 06/12/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
They should have a stall for humans.. display some gymnastics or something.. :P




That was funny gomp. Maybe it would make people think in new ways if they had a human cage on the way out.

I don't know if the word "moral" applies to wanting for animals to have their natural freedom versus being caged up for our enjoyment.

Doesn't it have more to do with just plain ole compassion and fellow feeling, the ability to relate to another conscious living thing?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286570 - 06/12/05 01:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Arp said:
You can define moral anyhow you want.





where were you when I was trying to convince people of shroomery that morality is subjective? Now you show up when I'm duscussing on the other side



:smile: They are probably aware of that, they just don't want to promote it cause it could mean that certain people start making certain acts that works against other peoples enlightment? Like kicking them in the back when trying to meditate outside :grin:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: zoo's [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4286587 - 06/12/05 01:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you know when I think of the zoo problem I think of the Twilight Zone show from the 50s. See now, the Twilight Zone made about 2 or 3 episodes that were critiques of the immorality of zoos. One of the famous ones is the one where some astronauts crash land on Mars and the Martians come to greet them and act all friendly and give them a home like they had on Earth but it turns out it's just their zoo home for all the Martians to come and gawk at them all day. There were a couple other episodes sorta similar.

Now as stupid and racist and mysoginist as our culture still was in the 50s we at least realized how bad zoos were then, so why are they still around?


--------------------
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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: zoo's [Re: Arp]
    #4286678 - 06/12/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It is has nothing to do with acting. I'd never hurt anyone intentionally, because I love people, and feel compassion, and I care for human race, but my choice has nothing to do with some invisible moral law encoded in molecules of urine or in the photons of stars, it has to do with my wish for everyone to get along and love each other.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: zoo's [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4286695 - 06/12/05 02:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
They should have a stall for humans.. display some gymnastics or something.. :P




That was funny gomp. Maybe it would make people think in new ways if they had a human cage on the way out.

I don't know if the word "moral" applies to wanting for animals to have their natural freedom versus being caged up for our enjoyment.

Doesn't it have more to do with just plain ole compassion and fellow feeling, the ability to relate to another conscious living thing?




well morals in this case are the hand of compassion, so while in root of the problem is lack of awareness of the problem or lack of compassion, it translates into morality because the wellbeing of animals is at stake. That is what morality is about, a system that tries to prevent hurting the wellbeing and dignity of humans and nature


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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