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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, 10cc Syringe, Brown Rice Flour, Perlite, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineBeppoMarx
old hand
Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Pulling hy hair out
    #428342 - 10/17/01 12:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This is crazy. I started 1 1/2 pint jar of ps. cyanescens about 3 weeks ago, in BRF/verm MMGG jar- no colonization yet. With a mycellium syringe that i created about 3 days prior to innnoculation (the spores def. germinated and made a decent milky syringe) I started 5 jars of Puerto Ricans (2 pint, 3 half) on 10-07; 10 days ago, only 2 have shown signs of mycellium growth and it is very little growth. Those jars contained thistle seed, rye flour, (less) milo, and verm. I also innoculated on 10/14 8 jars of lipa yai from a myc. syringe and to this day (4 days later) there is only one small growth on one of the finch seeds out of all my 8 jars, which appeared tuesday and has not grown since. imagine my frustration... they are all in the same climate, low humidity (butu theyre jars, i didnt think this would be much of a setback) and temps are about 75 degrees. maybe lower at points to around 68. will this temp cause jars not to colonize because that is teh only conclusion i can come up with, seeing as how all my attempts in the past 3-4 months or so have not resulted in 1 colonized jar yet. this fucking sucks ass. I know my jars are not dried out, a few of the lipa jars have a small amount of excess water in the bottoms of them. The puertos looked dry so yesterday I added some sterile water to them (3-4cc to the 1/2 pints and 6-10cc to the pint jars depending on how dry they felt when i touched the top of the substrate with the syringe needle and just by looks also. this is wicked pissing me off also seeing as how my casing of acadian cubensis keeps getting this white contam which i believe is from fruit flies and i have to keep removing substantial chunks of my casing and even as far down to the substrate when i saw it growing so large this morning. this is incredibly frustrating, if anyone has any advice or anything please post something. I also cannoty find rye anywhere, where should i look to get it? ive tried supermarkets in my area with no success. last night i made 4 more jars of pan cyans from a myc syringe into jars of rye flour/verm/dung compost. if i dont have success with anything soon i think im gonna go fucking nuts, i cant believe ive been working dilligantly on this for about 4 months and have not apparently done anything right.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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OfflineDaydreamer
journeyman
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Vermont
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428349 - 10/17/01 01:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

only thing i can think of is: if you don't have holes in the jar lids, put them there with a sterile nail or something. if you do, and have tape (or anything else) over them, take it off. invert the jars. i had the same problem the first time. there were no signs of colonization for weeks, and as soon as the gasses stated to exchange, voila: mycelium.


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OfflineBeppoMarx
old hand
Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: Daydreamer]
    #428380 - 10/17/01 01:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I am using micron magick filter disks on all of my jars. and to add more to this, there is no sign or smell of contamination at all in any of my jars, there may be a faint smell of myc. but still almost no visible growth.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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Offlinemahookah
journeyman
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 74
Loc: NV
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428461 - 10/17/01 03:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Are the jars maybe packed too tight?


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OfflineBeppoMarx
old hand
Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: mahookah]
    #428474 - 10/17/01 03:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

hmm, i never thought of that... is there any way to check? i know i just scooped the substrate in the jars with a spoon and did not pack them down at all. there were air spaces before i miced the jars but after that it settled down. think maybe i should get back in my 'glovebox' and use a sterile fork or something to agitate them? any ideas on this and has anyone had any experience with a dense substrate stunting growth?


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemisfit
Stranger

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 18
Loc: utah
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428479 - 10/17/01 04:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I had the exact same problem with 4 of my jars. I innouculated
7 and two of them showed signs the 4th day. I had two that smelled awfull and two that showd no signs of growth after ten days. So I did an experiment. I took the four jars and disected them. The reason the two smeeled awful was that I had tried to put hem into a fishtank with water and keep them warm, while putting them it the two that smelled had tipped over and got some water in them. So I turned them upside down to drain for a day and put them back in. Anyways the reason the smelly ones were smelly was the grain had soaked nutrients into the Micron filter discs that I had on them and rotted. No growth, but there was no contamination either. In the other two jars the mycellium was growing just slowly. I had good sized knots of growth in them. So I took the knots and rubbed them with alcohol and stuck them in some birdseed, and right now they are colinizing with no cotamination. That makes up for 6 of the 7 jars. I found the other one I had lost and now it is growing better that the first two. It just took Two weeks before I could see the growth. The reason I couldn't was I innoculated them in the middle of the subsrate.
Sorry it so long I just got excited to tell my story.
BTW I reccomend getting filter disk they are great. I have been very unsterile the whole time and have lost nothing to contamination. Plus my quart jars filled 3/4 full colonized before my cakes and my pint jars 1/2 full.
later


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: misfit]
    #428510 - 10/17/01 04:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I used that method on my forst 20 or so jar attempts; teh fish tank with about 2" of whater and a submirsable heater. yeah it kept them warm but that was my very first attempt at growing and it turned out they were way too dry (especially after 1 month the growth halted with quarter sized mycellium on just about all 4 innoc points in most jars) I noticed that the water in the aq would become stagnent and contams would enter the water. at that time i was using punched lids and tinfoil, so i stopped because after some time (over 30 days) a few caught green mold. i figured it was due to the water; which by the way i did end up changing every few weeks. I also read that they will colonize in lower temps other than 82 which i s what i had them at so now they are in my closet at about 70 degrees. I also believe that lower temps wil increase potency so i figured that i would wait an extra 5 days or so but i may be finding that 70 may be too low a temp for colonization of lipas, puerto ricans, and maybe even the pan cyans that i just started. although i can come to no conclusion about the ps. cyan jar that has been innoced for almost 2 weeks at the same 70 temp with no growth at all. I posted in the advanced forum about the possibility of radiation from my microwave affecting the growth rate, as i have almost always miced my jars to sterilize. or maybe the temps from my microwave heated it up too much and killed the nutrients? i do not know if this is possible or not, nobody has followed up that post yet but if anyone can offer advise on microwave ratiation or the temp decomposition of the nutrients in thistle seed, finch seed, straw, BRF or rye flour I would appreciate that info also.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDaydreamer
journeyman
Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Vermont
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428537 - 10/17/01 05:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

try the mmgg jar sterilization method next time... i won't use the microwave because it's trusting too much to chance (at least in my case .. i have an antique) - also, read the oven tek (it's about how to avoid contams using an oven shelf) if you haven't already.. i habitually set my jars up in a very dirty kitchen/living room area (male college student ;^) but using the oven tek have never had a single jar contaminate. average 100% colonization time so far has been about 4 weeks to the day from fresh spore syringes. (5 innoc sites, four on sides, between glass and substrate, and a squirt on top in the center) i've never even used a verm layer over the substrate, and still had no problems.


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Offlinemisfit
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Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 18
Loc: utah
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428555 - 10/17/01 05:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think that radiation would be in high enough ammounts to affect the growth at all. If anything it would mutate it, I think. Anyways I think that if it put out that much they wouldnt allow it to be marketed and I'm sure they wouldn't have let it be used in the home for cooking. Think about it. If you had more than trace amounts of radiation coming from microwaves even trace amounts would be too much, I'm sure someone would have taken them off the market due to health risks.
Are all you substrates bulk or are there cakes too. Cause if I was you just to have peace of mind I would sacrifice one to see if there is growth.
Oh and for my incubation camber I put a fish tank heater, non submersable, into, I think, a V8 bottle and it fit perfect, then cut a hole into my lid so it fit. It works great keeping the temp at 84-86 all the time. here are pics of it. Mabey one of these will help?


That method with the fish tank was shitty cause I had 3 different sizes of jars, and the smallest ones needed to sit on something in the water, so I decided to do this instead. Works wonderfully. the fish tank heater is Top Fin if it is relevent to you or not. It took about a week and a half to colonize the quart sized ones fully. I had a thermometer/ hydrometer(? Humidity) I also put a heat pad under it. I only turned it on at night, during the day I covered it with a sleeping bag so my mother couldn't see it.
Hope this helps.


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 1,126
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: misfit]
    #428625 - 10/17/01 06:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

*sigh* I guess ill have to try boiling some jars to see if that fixes my problem. thanks everybody for what help you did lend, but again i still remain pretty much where i started. my only new hypothesis is that when i supercooked the jars the inner substrate dried out and somehow stayed dry while thre is still water on teh bottoms of the jars. thank you misfit for giving me your heating setup, i was thinking about putting my submersible heater in a 20oz pepsi bottle and placing it in with my jars for warmth, but have not got around to that yet as i was testing my more potent/lower temp method. ill also agitate a few of teh jars to see if i can determine the moisture contents (there is condensation in most of the jars though). i guess im so fed up at this point that i will abandon lower temps in lieu of faster colonization. my next problem is my lack of vermiculite, its about impossible to get that in CNY as soon as fall hits.... anyone knwo where i can get a shitload of it offline for a decent price? i guess thats another post altogether but this should final out my inquiries for teh time being. thanks again everyone.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,121
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Last seen: 2 months, 11 days
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #428689 - 10/17/01 07:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

>I know my jars are not dried out, a few of the lipa jars have >a small amount of excess water in the bottoms of them.
That?s not good. Neither too little nor too much water is good.
How to achieve the correct moisture?
When preparing the substrate, do it this way:
Put the required amount of vermiculite in a bowl(NOT for each jar separately!). Use a spatula or spoon to mix in enough water to make the vermiculite about as damp as it can be without feeling soggy, mix well. (A small puddle, very small, should form at the bottom of the bowl when tilting the bowl). Then add the appropriate amount of BRF and mix together. The idea is to coat the wet vermiculite particles with the dry powder as you stir the mix with the spatula. This sounds trivial but it makes all the difference.

>i have almost always miced my jars to sterilize.
The sterilisation in the microwave is not good at all. You get an uneven heating, you loose moisture.
If you want to be sure you have a properly sterilized substrate, buy and learn to use a pressure cooker.
45 min for cakes will do the trick for sure.

>or maybe the temps from my microwave heated it up too >much and killed the nutrients?
As long you have water left in the suibstrate, the achieveable temp. in the microwave is 212?F.


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OfflineOsh_Kosh_BGosh
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Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 79
Last seen: 15 years, 14 days
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: Anno]
    #428746 - 10/17/01 08:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

patience... my first time growin it took about 1.5 months to fully colonize and 2 weeks after birthing before I even started seeing pins


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Offlinemisfit
Stranger

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 18
Loc: utah
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: Anno]
    #429004 - 10/18/01 12:51 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Verm. try a big hardware store like Home depo. or Lowes.
CNY Central New york? If thats where you live then I'm not sure if there are Lowes (use to be Eagle) and I think that home Depo is a midwest thing. Most places where you can buy perlite will usually have verm. right next to it.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
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Re: Pulling hy hair out [Re: misfit]
    #429154 - 10/18/01 05:57 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sometimes they take a while to germinate, but as long as:
the substrate is not packed tightly
the temps are good
there is air exchange - then you should be laughing, sometimes its just slow...:-)


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, 10cc Syringe, Brown Rice Flour, Perlite, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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