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InvisibleArp
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A year of freedome
    #4280915 - 06/10/05 05:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In Denmark & Sweden there is a system where you can switch places with an unemplyed for a year.
You'll get about 70% of your regular pay. No demands whatsoever.

Is this being practised anywhere else?

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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281008 - 06/10/05 06:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

thats because denmark and sweden are shitty red countries


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #4281031 - 06/10/05 06:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

wtf am I talking to. dudes with backward baseballcaps??? :shake:

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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281070 - 06/10/05 06:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

:hippie:


--------------------
You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281266 - 06/10/05 07:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
In Denmark & Sweden there is a system where you can switch places with an unemplyed for a year.
You'll get about 70% of your regular pay. No demands whatsoever.

Is this being practised anywhere else?




I've never heard of this, but I wouldn't doubt it. Those wacky Europeans....

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281331 - 06/10/05 08:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

why the hell should you get paid for not working?  :shake:

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281347 - 06/10/05 08:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
why the hell should you get paid for not working?  :shake:




Here's how it works it sounds like....they take money from people who actually work and then use this money to support these loafers.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281377 - 06/10/05 08:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well, for me it sounds like the perfect way to be able to do some traveling without having a shitload of money.

Guess you guys dont actually work so you wouldnt know how fucking tedious it can be.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281388 - 06/10/05 08:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Guess you guys dont actually work so you wouldnt know how fucking tedious it can be.

Either that or they're of the opinion that humans need to work half their life away even after we've invented enough technology to take all the work off our hands :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281391 - 06/10/05 08:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:Guess you guys dont actually work so you wouldnt know how fucking tedious it can be.


Thats an awsome leap of logic dude.  :thumbup:

Some people complain about socalist freeloaders who get money for bieng lazy, conclusion- these people must not work.  :rotfl:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281393 - 06/10/05 08:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ever had a paid vacation?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A year of freedome [Re: trendal]
    #4281396 - 06/10/05 08:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, you?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281402 - 06/10/05 08:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Shit man, where do you work? McDonalds?

Isn't it standard practice for companies to give at least a few days paid vacation each year?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281407 - 06/10/05 08:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Well, for me it sounds like the perfect way to be able to do some traveling without having a shitload of money.

Guess you guys dont actually work so you wouldnt know how fucking tedious it can be.




And it is ok to force people that are working in tedious jobs to give up some of their money to people who don't feel like working and supporting themselves? How is that fair?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A year of freedome [Re: trendal]
    #4281410 - 06/10/05 08:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, but I dont get it.
I make more than I deserve, so I can save for my vacation.

Whats the difference of getting a paid vacation, or making a little more and paying for you own vacation?

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4281417 - 06/10/05 08:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
And it is ok to force people that are working in tedious jobs to give up some of their money to people who don't feel like working and supporting themselves? How is that fair?




You have you have worked alteast 2 years. I think your missing the
point with the whole thing. It gets an unemplyed a chance to proove
what he is capable of whilst someone who is working some free time
to study, travel or whatever.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281422 - 06/10/05 08:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Whats the difference of getting a paid vacation, or making a little more and paying for you own vacation?

There isn't much of one.

So what's the difference in making more to pay for your own year-long vacation and making less then getting paid even less during your year-long vacation.

Or, perhaps, is it the length of the vacation that angers you?

What do you think about professors? They get to go on a sabbatical every few years, I think, and I'm quite sure they get paid for it.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A year of freedome [Re: trendal]
    #4281449 - 06/10/05 08:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Im not angry.

The difference is if the person gets paid by a company per agreement of employment, or if the money is bieng taken by another worker by force. I doubt that the worker who takes off for a year, paid into the system enough to fund a whole year off.

If a worker takes a year off, at 70% pay after two years of work, then he must have paid 35% of his wage in taxes, above the taxes needed for roads, fire, and other services. If this is the case I wouldnt be against it (but it seems silly to pay taxes just to get the money back later). But I doubt this is the case, Im pretty sure this workers "vacation" for a year is subsidized by other workers. Somebody is gonna get screwed in the end.

As far as the professors go, they are (usually) state employed so there money does come from other workers. It dosent seem fair to me. But if they are skilled and needed then they can demand more for there services.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: trendal]
    #4281452 - 06/10/05 08:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I think it can be hard for a Mcdonalds worker to save up enough
money to be able to take a year off. And I also think that they
deserve it the most. Standing there flippin greezy American junk
food with a forced grin on their face all day long.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: DieCommie]
    #4281521 - 06/10/05 08:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Somebody is gonna get screwed in the end.




I think you overestimate the resources needed to fuel your day.
Everything is mass-produced and very cost-efficent these days.
Takes very little Energy to keep our daily lives going with the
basics like food, heat, water etc.
Try not to think in terms such as the marketprice. They are unrealistic.
Your hi-tech equipment is rubbish. I work for a company that deals
with such things and we throw away QUANTITIES daily!

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: A year of freedome [Re: trendal]
    #4281641 - 06/10/05 09:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Whats the difference of getting a paid vacation, or making a little more and paying for you own vacation?

There isn't much of one.

So what's the difference in making more to pay for your own year-long vacation and making less then getting paid even less during your year-long vacation.

Or, perhaps, is it the length of the vacation that angers you?

What do you think about professors? They get to go on a sabbatical every few years, I think, and I'm quite sure they get paid for it.




This is crazy talk. When I work for a company I earn vacation time based directly on my efforts. It is my choice to work for a company that offers vacation or not and my choice to find a salary I'm willing to take.

If the government pays for a person not to work it is a practice that is forced onto everyone in society. The government steals money from the working person who earned it through their work and gives it to someone who did not earn that money.

Guess you guys dont actually work so you wouldnt know how fucking tedious it can be.

It exactly because I do work and deserve all of the efforts of my work that I oppose such a system

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4281650 - 06/10/05 09:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
Your hi-tech equipment is rubbish.




You do realize that you just used a computer, the internet, and electricity to post that don't you?  :smirk:

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OfflineCosmopolitan
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Registered: 06/03/05
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4281659 - 06/10/05 09:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

He could have used not technical means, like getting his mom to post for him, who may not have anti technology sentiment


--------------------
Yarry Unexpurgated?

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4282619 - 06/11/05 05:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This sounds great.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Learyfan]
    #4282634 - 06/11/05 06:31 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:It exactly because I do work and deserve all of the efforts of my work that I oppose such a system



What about those people with a lower pay? Don't they deserve it aswell? This is silly. "Efforts of work" is so subjective.
There are people working there asses off for nothing, whilst some make bigtime $$$ for very little, using their contacts and so on. Is that system just?

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4282650 - 06/11/05 06:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Arp said:
Your hi-tech equipment is rubbish.




You do realize that you just used a computer, the internet, and electricity to post that don't you?  :smirk:




You can use rubbish can't you?
*edit* I was talking in terms of production costs.
The price we pay is just fictional and has absolutely nothing to
do with the work-load that goes into each process.

Simple slavery, easy as that.

Edited by Arp (06/11/05 07:41 AM)

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4282705 - 06/11/05 07:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

What are you saying? Are you saying that a computer isn't worth say $1000?

Prices are generally set by something called the market. The freer the market the more realistic the prices. The computer is worth $1000 not because of the amount of work required to build but rather the amount people are willing to pay.

You think people deciding to pay a certain amount of money for a product is slavery?

What about those people with a lower pay? Don't they deserve it aswell?

I'm not them so I can't say what they deserve. But I sure as hell don't have the right to steal from someone to reward someone else.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: newuser1492]
    #4282736 - 06/11/05 08:10 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The market is anything but realistic.

Here is an example:
Your out of warranty computer breaks. It's a brand computer so you
leave it in for a service doing the insurance-thing.
Those brand manufactors can charge $1000 for an old motherboard,
that way the insurance company wont find it worthwhile to do the
repair and instead scrap it. This is a waste of resources imho.
Your computer is not worth $1000 (which can be several hours of
manpower). Think about it those are mass-produced, the production
costs are minimum even the so-called science that got it there.
There are manufactured needs that we could do without, but a way
for the system to control people and get them to work. We are
manufacturing crap and it's not realistic at all.
Just a huge waste of resources! Keeps the monster growing.

We are building a pile of shit.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4282760 - 06/11/05 08:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The market doesn't always have to do with the amount of labor required to build something. It's the amount people are willing to pay for it. One major cause of the market being unrealistic at times is due to government interference.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: newuser1492]
    #4282762 - 06/11/05 08:31 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

But I sure as hell don't have the right to steal from someone to reward someone else




So do you think it's right to exploit people?
What about companies moving to other countries to cut costs?
There then can polute all they want and use child workers etc
Are those child workers being ripped off in your opinion?

If someone over there will do your job for half the price,
does that mean you are getting twice the amount as your worthy?

See its all fucking numbers which dont make any sense realy.
A way for the system to exploit every single one of us.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: newuser1492]
    #4282765 - 06/11/05 08:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
It's the amount people are willing to pay for it. One major cause of the market being unrealistic at times is due to government interference.




Haha this makes me laugh! It's hard advertising for new needs
that bring up the prices. People think they need it and work to get
it. But what they are working for is just shit! They don't know
better and should be educated.

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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4284161 - 06/11/05 05:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You may not be aware but in order for just about anything to happen somebody out there is working. Now if they go on vacation for a year and some unemployed person that hasn't done the job as much/ever is now doing it any idea how the final product is going to be? Of course I'm sure in Scandinavia they have a plethora of skilled/expierence workers (you know doctors, masons, metal smiths) waiting in unemployment lines. So that leaves the unskilled workers and if any group needs a vacation less are those individuals. They are the ones that need to be learning a trade instead of living off the state.

Your assignment is to back away from you're computer and go out into the real world and see how the market place works. Go out and realize how everyone is trying to make money and grow their business no matter how big or small. Go see that if everyone just went and sat around nothing would get accomplished and that is not good. Go see that everything comes from somewhere and somebody put their time and energy into it. Do not, however, do all of that with someone elses money go out and earn it yourself first. Be careful though your attitude says that this will be new and painful for you so try it first in small doses.

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4284504 - 06/11/05 07:23 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You make it sound that all this work we put into the system makes it
juuuuust possible for everyone to be able to have a roof over the
head and food on the table. The fact is that we are overproducing.
Throwing tons of stuff away. Leaching on the "developing" countries.

I have seen too much of the market place. How a false smile can give
you advantages. Something that one has to work days for can be given
just with the right contacts. Is that just? How much of the working
hours do you think are done for our basic needs to survive?
We mass-produce shit! Alot of work goes into this shit, and if we
would just stop all this shit then we who do the shit can help the
ones producing food, housing, water systems, whatever. This would
result in the possibilty for everyone to be able to slow down alittle

and get more free time beside the work. We are so effective now
that very little effort can result in alot of resources. But do
you want to know why shit keep appearing? Cause then we can be
distracted and wont argue.

For a optimal society, taking nature & people in consideration this
crazy wild beast system is very damaging.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4284798 - 06/11/05 09:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I can understand why you are unhappy with the current system and that you feel many people take advantage of others. So tell me why do you think that a system where people (the government) have the power to take money by force if necessary from an individual will have altruistic intentions?

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InvisibleArp
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: newuser1492]
    #4285945 - 06/12/05 07:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The free market is a breeding ground for greed & competition and
does not promote inner peace in any way as far as I can see.
Just look at people and how they act. I think it's the worst example
of a way of life & what it does for our enviroment.
Same time I don't feel a guverment is necessarly needed. Maybe in
the transition, to clean the filth away. With the right set of mind
I think you'll want to share and support instead of suspecting your
fellow human of being a leech.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A year of freedome [Re: Arp]
    #4286257 - 06/12/05 10:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
The free market is a breeding ground for greed & competition and
does not promote inner peace in any way as far as I can see.
Just look at people and how they act. I think it's the worst example
of a way of life & what it does for our enviroment.



Examples, please? Also, are you aware of the pollution problems the Soviet Union had? Environmental problems are hardly unique to the free market.

Quote:

Same time I don't feel a guverment is necessarly needed. Maybe in the transition, to clean the filth away. With the right set of mind I think you'll want to share and support instead of suspecting your fellow human of being a leech.



Sharing is fine, and there's nothing that says you can't share within a free market. A free market means you are free to do as you wish as long as you don't coerce others with force or threat thereof.


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