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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Registered: 11/12/04
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An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed)
    #4280074 - 06/10/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well, This would be my 3rd post. But gonna post something I tried that worked well(as opposed to a dozen other experiments that failed miserably).

Basically I had a Brown Rice, I innoculatad that with Koji(a japanese mold used to convert starch to sugar) after the rice was colonized I dried it out ground it up, and prepared it like I would normally prepare BRF. well it took about a 1/3 of the time it normally takes to colonize at that point.

Im going to do so again, to make sure it was not a fluke. also I will take pictures.

on another note, I believe that Koji can inoculate other grains aswell, which is great because you would get simple sugars without sprouts and such.

umm, thanks for reading Hi


Edited by HumptyWasPushed (06/10/05 04:12 PM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280105 - 06/10/05 03:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Why go through all that trouble when you can just use grains?

Nice exp. btw :cool:

-Gnostic


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280140 - 06/10/05 03:29 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well I did that with Brown Rice, because the koji's use with rice is well documented. But I have read that it can be used to inoculate other grains aswell so that will be a future experiment.

It convert starches to sugars, without causing sprouting and such, and also it may have some anti-bacterial, and anti-Viral activity, which could help prevent contams.

If I could do it succesfully with other grains I would be a happy cat.

I don't think its a fluke as it took off faster than anything else I have ever tried. but gonna have to retest.

The reason I ground the Brown Rice after is because I never tried whole rice and wanted to stick to something I knew. that way I could be sure that if it died it was the koji and not improper technique.

I may try to inoculate barley with Koji soon, I've read that some breweries are able to do so in japan with great success.

Question, the fact that the Starch is Converted into Sugar is probably the reason it took off so quickly when inoculated with other spores right?


Edited by HumptyWasPushed (06/10/05 04:41 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4280146 - 06/10/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Very weird, I'm interested if any experts have any opinions..I'm afraid it wont get much attention with a title not mentioning "Koji" but i'll be interested in seeing what people say...not really sure if this benefited you or not, or if it would benefit other grains or what...interesting though...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4280154 - 06/10/05 03:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Same.

Sugars might have been one factor i'm sure.

I'd change the title...Something to give it more notice...

-Gnostic


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4280401 - 06/10/05 04:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Same.

Sugars might have been one factor i'm sure.

I'd change the title...Something to give it more notice...

-Gnostic




interesting indeed. i'd be surprised if the mad scientists over in advanced mycology haven't tried this already, but i've never heard of it.
but, i haven't done a search on it yet. gonna do that now.

and yes, hump please edit the title, w/ the word Koji in it, puts a lot less stress on the search engine that way  :smile:


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: deanofmean]
    #4280417 - 06/10/05 04:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It had to be more than sugars though.

This kind of reminds me of Lc's, They colonize rather quickly...:shrug:

I'ma go read up on that stuff and see if I can futher add anything worth posting :cool:

-Gnostic


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280463 - 06/10/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Oh it should be noted that it was Amazonians that were used to re-inoculate the Koji Rice


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4280464 - 06/10/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Damn...couldn't really find anything =/

Do you have any info. on it? Any links?

-Gnostic


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4280479 - 06/10/05 04:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I couldnt find much either...except on google about how its used to create Saki...interesting stuff but I'm not sure if this conversion would help out mycelium. Kinda like if you ate something that made all the food you eat, turn to sugar...would be ok to start out..lots of energy...but it wouldnt last long. We need a well balanced set of nutrients, certain ones in the right amounts...so does mycelium...not sure what this takes away or gives..

Dont make it sound like I'm crapping on your theory though...I just always look at things from all sides. Its interesting for sure though.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHotnuts
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4280481 - 06/10/05 05:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Very weird, I'm interested if any experts have any opinions..I'm afraid it wont get much attention with a title not mentioning "Koji" but i'll be interested in seeing what people say...not really sure if this benefited you or not, or if it would benefit other grains or what...interesting though...




Agreed! You've got my attention. Could you explain more about your findings?


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Koji Info [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4280489 - 06/10/05 05:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is the best info I can find

Kojiis a type of mould similar to that which turns bread green and furry. Scientific name: Aspergillus oryzae. It breaks down starch with an enzyme called amylase, the same one as in saliva and malted grains (the very same enzymes we activate when we mash malted barley, wheat etc to produce wort.)

Koji comes in two forms. First is koji kin, in other words, seed koji. This is generally in the form of rice grains on which the mould has been allowed to run rampant and go to spore and then dried. This is now the inoculum.

The second form is what is more commonly referred to as simply koji, but to distinguish it from koji kin is referred to as kome koji (kome means rice in Japanese--it is pronounced as two syllables, the "o" should be as in of, and the "e" as in egg.) So this koji is steamed and cooled rice that has been inocculated with some koji kin and then incubated at 30 to 35 degrees for a few days. The mould hyphae grow right through the rice. You need to stir it every 6 to 12 hours and stop it by bunging it in the fridge if it starts to go yellowy green--that means it is trying to form spore. In Japan, it is possible to pop down to the local supermarket and buy koji in this form fromm the cool-goods section as it is used for making miso paste and a few other food-related things.

In sake making, it is this kome koji that is mixed together with a larger quantity of steamed rice, some water and yeast to get the fermentation underway. At coolish temperatures (10-15 deg) the koji chugs away making amylase, the amylase converts the rice starch to sugar, and the yeast does what yeast does best. And yadda yadda yadda, eventually you get sake.

//// Sometimes it looks like the bad stuff, but only if it starts to produce spores


I can't be sure it may have been a fluke, but it was the quickest colonization I ever had


Edited by HumptyWasPushed (06/10/05 05:05 PM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: My one succesful experiment out of the box [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280516 - 06/10/05 05:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Making you could utilize it best in a mix?

Use mustard seed as a delayed nute, Grains...Then mix up one of those nifty Koji jars?...

Not really sure on Any ratio...But it could be a nice way to introduce extra nutes early on :shrug:

-Gnostic


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280528 - 06/10/05 05:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I've damned my self to more experimentation....

When i started i was happy just doing what was neccesary, now Im getting really weird...... Experimentation is fun but it can be a royal pain in the arse. especially when you figure out something that has potential, and have to refine it.

Damn this hobby I love so much


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280552 - 06/10/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

So. You'd have to mix the Koji with cooked rice, allow the mold to do it's thing, then sterililze and inoculate? Maybe a bit more than that, but those are sorta the steps?


Edited by hotnutz (06/10/05 05:28 PM)


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4280572 - 06/10/05 05:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah thats basically it.

I am going to try something like IGnosticAbhorI mentioned in my next mix.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280577 - 06/10/05 05:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

this, sorta OT, and also related, i thimk  :blush:
there is a commercial outfit out here, that grows Shiitake. they give the spent substrate away as garden mulch.
i've been using it as ground cover around Rhodadendrens, they seem to like it.

it's also good for raising ps.cyan spawn, tho it doesn't make the best substrate for fruiting them.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: deanofmean]
    #4280604 - 06/10/05 05:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Naa. It makes perfect sense for sure. Just be carefull not to let the mold sporulate. That could be a heck of a mess. You'd have asperilligus spores everywhere. Nice work! Keep us posted on this. Where can you get this stuff? Healthfood stores?


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OfflineHumptyWasPushed
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #4280632 - 06/10/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I got mine from a friend who has a home brewery, but he recommends http://www.gemcultures.com/

its listed in Soy Cultures


Edited by HumptyWasPushed (06/10/05 05:50 PM)


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: An experiment with Koji, for spawn.(title changed) [Re: HumptyWasPushed]
    #4280641 - 06/10/05 05:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Much appreciative. Keep us updated if ya don't mind. Seems pretty good! I'll give it a try after the big move.  :thumbup:


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour

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