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InvisibleIcelander
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Emotions are not so good?
    #4275191 - 06/09/05 10:52 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Tim Leary said that emotions were the lowest form of consciousness. Emotions are caused by biochemical secretions in the body to serve during the state of acute emergency. He claimed emotions were all based on fear.

He claimed that the only state in which we can learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand is the absence of emotion. This he called bliss or ectasy, attained through centering the emotions.

He also said conscious love is not an emotion; it is a serene merging with yourself, other people and other forms of energy. Love cannot exist in an emotional state.

The great kick if the mystic experience,  is the sudden relief from emotional pressure.

I don't know if this is true or not. I was wondering what you all thought of this. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275195 - 06/09/05 10:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i think he was full of shit.

it's through fusing nirvana into emotion that you can achieve something.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: vampirism]
    #4275199 - 06/09/05 10:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Could you explain that in a little more detail? I'm trying to understand this. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275201 - 06/09/05 10:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

ill get back to it later, but i have a train to catch ATM


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: vampirism]
    #4275207 - 06/09/05 11:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So this was the leader of the psychedelic movement in the 70's?

I just can't imagine why it didn't take off??  :jester:


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



Edited by looner2 (06/09/05 11:02 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: looner2]
    #4275217 - 06/09/05 11:08 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not interested in defending him. And of course I took just that little bit out of his book the Politics of Ectasy.

Could you tell me why you think his statements are so far off?

And the 70s not taking off had nothing to do with him. A whole generation flaked out all on their own, if that's how you choose to see the 70s. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275239 - 06/09/05 11:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

First I'd like to say that he is a psychologist, and he does a good job at trying to sound scientific, but falling flat on his face like everyone of them that tries.

Emotions are caused by biochemical secretions in the body to serve during the state of acute emergency.

This is just stupid, acute emergency? Is it an emergency if I am happy watching the sunset? Or in love?

He claimed that the only state in which we can learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand is the absence of emotion. This he called bliss or ectasy, attained through centering the emotions.

Little contradictory there...?

But besides, my own view of emotions + logic is that of separation. Using logic in all aspects of life will drain you. Applying logic to emotion in order to justify it will always fall short. I think they need to be separated and treated individually.

I live through emotion. I understand through logic.

Don't mix them up, they don't mix.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: looner2]
    #4275253 - 06/09/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, Do you think Krishnamurti would agree with him? I'm trying to see what he is getting at. He said " What psychologists call love is emotional greed and self-enhancing gluttony based on fear."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/09/05 11:27 AM)


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275347 - 06/09/05 12:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not a big Leary fan but i do agree with him on many things. Well, this is the case ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275358 - 06/09/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with leary. Our emotions are primal, animalistic impulses that we need to evolve out of.


"Emotions are like waves. Watch them disappear in the vast, calm ocean."

-Bagwahn Dass


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275400 - 06/09/05 12:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Tim Leary said that emotions were the lowest form of consciousness. Emotions are caused by biochemical secretions in the body to serve during the state of acute emergency. He claimed emotions were all based on fear.

He claimed that the only state in which we can learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand is the absence of emotion. This he called bliss or ectasy, attained through centering the emotions.

He also said conscious love is not an emotion; it is a serene merging with yourself, other people and other forms of energy. Love cannot exist in an emotional state.

The great kick if the mystic experience,  is the sudden relief from emotional pressure.

I don't know if this is true or not. I was wondering what you all thought of this. :mushroom2:




I agree on  this definition of emotions and love as being not an emotion, but I like subtle emotions , they meake life more interesting. they can serves as electrical charge that keeps some things going. I'm not a fan of extreme emotions, both pleasant and unpleasant, they can block you indeed.

I don't think emotions are something that should be shut down compleatly, but like something that we can learn to control and distance ourselfs from, and then use it like a spice to life.

Sort of like, instead of drowning in sault sea watter, learn to swim, take a liter of watter, dry it up and take the sault, then later use the sault to make your food taste better. That's my approach. Instead of waiting for emotions to flood you, you take advantage of them, and use them as one of lifes pleasures.

And love, while it is both a state of mind, a choice, and act AND a feeling, it is not an emotion. It is rather a program that drives emotions in a certain way. Emotional attachemnt is not love, but love can cause emotional attachment, it can also cause happyness, sadness, anger etc. The collection of feelings that your love causes, determines how skillfull you are as a lover (not as in "sexal lover", but "he who loves")


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4275404 - 06/09/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
I agree with leary. Our emotions are primal, animalistic impulses that we need to evolve out of.


"Emotions are like waves. Watch them disappear in the vast, calm ocean."

-Bagwahn Dass




we don't need to do anything, we only need to do that what we wish to do


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4276080 - 06/09/05 03:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Mang.

I also disagree with his assertions... however, I'd entertain the idea that he was just a bit confused.

Emotions are neither good nor bad.

However, ATTACHMENT to and identifying with emotions is counter-productive. It is the attachment to emotional states that prevents us from being able to "learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand" not the actual emotions.

Embracing emotion without attachment or excessive identification (meaning that when there is no reason to feel a certain way, you release the emotional state and no longer regard it as being 'your own') is the way to go.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4276102 - 06/09/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, do you think he may have meant what you said when he wrote.-- "he called bliss or ectasy, attained through centering the emotions."

I think he was on to something here. What he is saying reminds me of something I think I remember Krishnamurti saying. I will look for it. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4276108 - 06/09/05 03:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with Leary on this one, or at least with the concept.

I think "emotion" is a leftover from the time before humans became "sentient" as we currently are. If you take a look at most higher animals, mammals specifically, it appears that the only thing they experience is Emotion. If this is the case, then I would say "emotion" is a primitive-consciousness...or what consciousness is without introspection, cognition, and semantic memory.

In humans, we have these abilities (introspection, cognition, semantic memory) added on to our previous form of consciousness (emotion)...but the higher-order abilities do not remove the lower-order mode of consciousness.

Beyond that...I think emotion is entirely over-rated. Pleasures of the flesh.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4276113 - 06/09/05 03:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
"Emotions are like waves. Watch them disappear in the vast, calm ocean."





...or learn to surf.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4276120 - 06/09/05 03:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I believe he may have been working towards that... that's why I said he seemed confused. :smile:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4276135 - 06/09/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Mang.

I also disagree with his assertions... however, I'd entertain the idea that he was just a bit confused.

Emotions are neither good nor bad.

However, ATTACHMENT to and identifying with emotions is counter-productive. It is the attachment to emotional states that prevent us from being able to "learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand" not the actual emotions.

Embracing emotion without attachment or excessive identification (meaning that when there is no reason to feel a certain way, you release the emotional state and no longer regard it as being 'your own') is the way to go.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Icelander]
    #4276430 - 06/09/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
He claimed that the only state in which we can learn, harmonize, grow, merge, join, understand is the absence of emotion. This he called bliss or ectasy, attained through centering the emotions.




I read this section of Leary's book last year, and strongly disagreed. Now I find my position is more moderate.  I would like clarification as to what he means by "absence," especially given that he sees the path to ecstasy as centering emotions.

I believe that emotions themselves are neutral, temporary states.  It is our negative or positive reactions to these states which create our emotional experiences.  If we believe we have no choice, that we are subject to/victimized by our emotions, then we can get lost in them.

Quote:

He also said conscious love is not an emotion; it is a serene merging with yourself, other people and other forms of energy. Love cannot exist in an emotional state.




I agree with this inasmuch as I believe we cannot notice love while lost in emotions.  When we connect/correlate love with emotional reactions such as desire, obsession, loneliness, fear, sadness, etc... our experience of love is obscured.

When we open ourselves, and allow love to move through us, we can be fully aware of the love energy that is ever-present.  :heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Emotions are not so good? [Re: Veritas]
    #4276459 - 06/09/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Leary seems to equate emotions with negative states only. Even what someone might call emotional love he sees as fear based.

He says: " The emotional human being is an evolutionary drug addict continuously and recklessly shooting himself up with adrenalin and other dark ferments. The way to turn off the emotions is to turn on the senses, turn on to your body, turn on to your cellular reincarnation circus, turn on to the electric glow within and engage only in turn-on ego games." :grin: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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