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Offlineexclusive58
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To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles?
    #4274989 - 06/09/05 08:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That was the question to my philosophy exam today. I had to think about it and write about it for 4 straight hours. I think i did pretty well, alhough i would've done better had there been more time.

Out of curiosity, what would you have said?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4274997 - 06/09/05 08:14 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No, Freedom means to me that you can make a non addictive choice about how you react to things. Preferences vs addictions.

But not for 4 hours. :grin:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275001 - 06/09/05 08:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No, of course not. Just because it is free did not mean they were obligated to pave the path with gold...and provide refreshments


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275432 - 06/09/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes and no.
No, in the case of freedom of expression or freedom of speech, as there must be limits on any interaction.
Yes, in the case of freedom of thought. Free thinkers come to my mind ...

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineGomp
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275445 - 06/09/05 12:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

To bee free, is the obstacles...


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Offlinemikl
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275465 - 06/09/05 12:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Perception is reality. You are what you believe. I believe death to be the only "true" freedom.


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MAY YOU BE NURTURED BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275494 - 06/09/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

To be free, means no limitations, no obstacles. Merriam-Webster's dictionary agrees with me.


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Offlinemikl
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: moog]
    #4275535 - 06/09/05 01:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You look to a dictionary to discover the meening of freedom? How revulting. I'm sorry to be an asshole, but if you are guided by others "truths", you'll never find your own.


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MAY YOU BE NURTURED BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.


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OfflineLiveByFreedom
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: mikl]
    #4275554 - 06/09/05 01:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I remember in Politics of Ecstacy by Tim Leary, him stating that the meaning of ecstacy is 'freedom without limit'. Can flat-out freedom exist with limits? Freedom is non-existance?


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"Everything is not as it seems." Eye


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: Gomp]
    #4275573 - 06/09/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
To bee free, is the obstacles...




We are the biggest obstacle to our own freedom...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: mikl]
    #4275603 - 06/09/05 01:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, that's my meaning of freedom. The dictionary's meaning happened to be the same.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275623 - 06/09/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

to be free means to feel free, that's all


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4275656 - 06/09/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, so that's why Americans are the freest people in the world.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4275665 - 06/09/05 01:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

to be free means to feel free, that's all




That's the definition of illusory freedom.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: MAIA]
    #4275706 - 06/09/05 01:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

nice answers, overall.

Quote:

MAIA said:
We are the biggest obstacle to our own freedom...

MAIA




I definitely agree with that, because sometimes we don't know exactly why we do certain things, sometimes our passions and impulses take over. Freud said this comes from unconscious mechanisms that result from suppressed desires which in turn makes us neurotic beings. So we're actually more ignorant of ourselves than we are free.

The answer to this dilemma is psycho-analysis, which is a way to discover the hidden unconscious mechanisms of our mind that we weren't aware of, until the psychologist made us shine some light and discover for ourselves what was going wrong, which puts an end to the neurosis that was so bothering.

Therefore, in one particular way, being free means being aware. It means knowing what you're doing, why you're doing it and for what purpose.


But what about freedom in society? Should we be allowed to do whatever we want, without anyone or anything to get in our way? How would you define this particular type of liberty?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275725 - 06/09/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

to be free, is to be separated from freedom? :P


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: MAIA]
    #4275918 - 06/09/05 02:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

there is no illusory freedom..

I am not free to run around naked on street, but I don't wish to do that anyway, so I don't care, and I'm still free.

There are two ways to get freedom:
1. fight to cancel the limitations
2. cancel your needs

You can feel free in a jail, as much as you can feel free in nature, both is freedom, because you are the ONLY judge. What you say is freedom is freedom


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/09/05 02:32 PM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: Icelander]
    #4275970 - 06/09/05 02:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No, Freedom means to me that you can make a non addictive choice about how you react to things. Preferences vs addictions.

But not for 4 hours. :grin:




I'd add my 2 cents, but Icelander summed it up.  :thumbup:


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: exclusive58]
    #4275988 - 06/09/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Should we be allowed to do whatever we want, without anyone or anything to get in our way? How would you define this particular type of liberty?




We only should if we could :wink: Mankind is still at his "childhood" and not ready for such a gift. For such thing to happen, all of us should agree and comply to values of respect and responsibility, make them universal values. Otherwise it will become a complete chaos.

If it was possible to achieve this type of liberty, i would call it anarchism, a stateless society with voluntary social harmony, where today forms of state and social coercion will end. Will we ever get there ? That's a good damn question !  First we need to change or reborn, but we surely don't need anyone making us change, it's our choice.

As you can see, we really are the biggest obstacle :wink:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: To be free, does it mean that there are no obstacles? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4276029 - 06/09/05 02:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You only cancel your needs if you can't cancel your limitations.
Limitations are not bad, they are needed, but why can't you make your own limitations ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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