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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Love = Kinship
    #4271149 - 06/08/05 12:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Almost every morning for the last 15 years, I and my current dog companion have walked up one of the mountains behind my house. There is no leash between us. This morning was cold and a winter like mist was in the air. We passed through low clouds and emerged at a vantage point. Below was my little town obscured by the most beautiful cloud bank traveling many miles down the valley. Above was pure sunshine so bright it hurt the eyes. Mountains everywhere some with forest and some open as we are on the edge of high desert. It was so very beautiful it went straight into my heart.

I was reminded by that beauty that the earth is alive and still whole. That awareness became a feeling of wholeness in myself and kinship with the earth and everything it contains. I was reminded of my  first solo high dose trip in these mountains. I was so afraid. It took me a year to work up the courage to go out alone overnight. My ego was terrified. The next morning was a day much like today. The awareness although magnified was much the same. I was awake and aware, not asleep at the wheel. I climbed for four more hours that morning and reached the very top of the peak above me. It was my last long hike with my beloved dog of 14 years. He died soon after. But that day we were whole and strong and in love. In love with life, all of it. No one was excluded friend or so called enemy. It was all one and I knew it. I did not need any debate. I was convinced.

I know that I am the same ultimately as those I choose to dislike. I realized on that trip that we are all here as part of the earth and no one is rejected by life. Everything needs to be experienced, I am made up in my individual proportion of all the loves and hates of every other human being. When my awareness is present in a moment like it was this morning. I was able to admit we are all one. I had allowed myself freedom in that moment.

My psychedelic experiences have shown me a path with heart. They have been priceless for me. I have a mission and goal in my life that makes all the challenge worthwhile. My mission is to realize my kinship with all of you, weather we agree or not, like each other or not, walk the same path or not. Love is total freedom for me. Love is to accept life and people as I find them. Love = Kinship. :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
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Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271157 - 06/08/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

very beautiful!!! :heart: :sun: :thumbup:

reading that put a smile on my face and braught out good emotions :laugh:


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (06/08/05 12:10 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 19,736
Loc: The Hand
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271361 - 06/08/05 01:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Beautiful post.  :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271419 - 06/08/05 01:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Love is total freedom for me."

:iloveyou:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271520 - 06/08/05 01:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I realized on that trip that we are all here as part of the earth and no one is rejected by life. :heart: :thumbup:

Reminds me of something I read once:

--

Written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s...

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271563 - 06/08/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

My mission is to realize my kinship with all of you,

That is what my thread said where you disagreed. Now you say it prettier than I did to capitalize.

NOT FAIR!  :mad:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Swami]
    #4271629 - 06/08/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I wrote this after reading what you said this morning before my walk. I acknowledge the importance of relationship to others. But it is only one my concerns. I implyed that this is my only mission, which I apologise for. And psychedelics helped me to become aware of the kinship of all life, not just human. My dog is just as valuable as my friends. As are the trees, and supriseingly the conflicts and pollution and war. Everything comes from the source of life, which we see as energy or whatever. It's all the same on the atomic level. So to me it must be of the same importance ultimately. The question becomes for me, what kind of relationship do I want with myself and everything else. :heart:

Sorry for the confusion brother. :heart: :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Swami]
    #4271660 - 06/08/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
My mission is to realize my kinship with all of you,

That is what my thread said where you disagreed. Now you say it prettier than I did to capitalize.

NOT FAIR!  :mad:




he got you there Ice! That is what he was saying in the "what matters most" post.

I support you both in it.

At the end of the song Limelight by Rush, the lyric goes,

the real relation
the underlying theme

meaning that the underlying theme to all of life is relating ourselves to others for self knowing, where as your other argument ice was relating yourself to yourself.

How can you know what you didn't like about yourself until, you realized, you didn't like it another? How can you know what you do like about yourself until your realized it in another? How can see your self, really and truly, without the mirror reflection of and in others?

It's because of the others we can experience and know ourselves. You needed the reflection of others to do the work you did Ice.

If you lived alone, you wouldn't even notice your being a dick or an angel nor would you have reason to care either way.

The time you were less happy was when, you weren't relating to others and that usually happens when we become self absorbed.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271729 - 06/08/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

you can tell where that came from... :heart:


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4271733 - 06/08/05 02:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I agree only in part. I am often happy when alone. I was refering also to the other thread of Swamis; that psychedelic experiences were just as valuable and important to me as my relationship to others.

To say what I would be if there were never any others is kind of impossible now isn't it. Relating to others is no more important than realating to nature or yourself. Some choose to live alone far from mankind. I cannot judge how fullfilling that would be. Can you?

I just think it's all important. Not just relationship to others. And that is what I was saying. Or trying to. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4271770 - 06/08/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

See, you mentioned when alone relating to nature or just even the quiet.

My point was that when alone, not having to care if you are a dick or angel is a form of contentment, happiness. Swami was saying to take that into your experience with others. hat feeling of being okay with whatever you just are in the moment.

Others can relate to a bad hair day. Others can relate to experiencing bad feelings. You don't have to hide them, you can ride through them and share with others that you are having them as it's human too.

We forget how much more accepting the world would and an be of us and who we just are if we would just let them in in a way that they can relate to us with. Often, our bad moods and feelings shut others out and that is what causes the problems.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Love = Kinship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4272199 - 06/08/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Swami was saying to take that into your experience with others. hat feeling of being okay with whatever you just are in the moment.
_____________________________________________________________________

You may be reading your beliefs into what you think Swami was saying.
He said relationship to others is the only important thing. The only thing that really matters. I say it is only one of the things that matter and they are all of importance. That's what I'm saying. :wink: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4272575 - 06/08/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In another section or the what matters most thread, he was saying that you, ice, think there is a you to leave behind and another you to bring into the relationships. He was pointing out the duality splitting of the self and suggested to pull together the whole package and drop the self judgments.

That's what I got from it. He can correct me if I am wrong.

Whatever, after I worked my way through the what matters most thread, I came to realize the value of both approaches and how either way they are sort of the same. If you leave behind what is an illusion of you then, it wasn't a part of your true whole anyway.

What you say you are doing on your own is still a form of connecting and relating so it fits in with my understanding of the fundamental dynamics of how connecting and relating benefits us.

Anyway, we replied at the same time when I first relied here and I didn't get to read where you said, you took a walk and had a change of heart about forming kinship with people. Had I had the chance to read that before my reply went up, I never would've made the first reply I did in this thread. :heart: :thumbup: :sun:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: Love = Kinship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4272599 - 06/08/05 06:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Wrong! :sad: I never said anything about a change of mind. I feel you have missed almost everything I have said here. :grin: You are making me laugh :heart:. You are invested here in your opinion and you make what everyone says fit into it.  :grin:

I never said relationships weren't important. Please re-read my posts on both threads. Stop thinking about your  point of view for one sec and you will see what I AM saying. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4272752 - 06/08/05 06:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Can you please tell us why you hate people?  :wink:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Swami]
    #4272792 - 06/08/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

For myself hating others only happens when I feel threatened in some way. Always the treat is  perceived. Hate has nothing really to do with self defense. You don't have time for hate then.

This is something that doesn't happen as often as it used to. I also could make claim to not hating anyone because I can usually rationally see my fear for what it is. Still that's not true. I still hate in little ways. You may have a different definition of hate than I would. I noticed in the Man/Boy love tread at times I felt somewhat threatened by accusations leveled at me. I would try to explain my self but felt fear and anger rising. Sometimes typing a reply I would find my heart beating fast and my hands trembled. I would focus on my anger (hate) to try and not feel threatened.

So there it is. That's why I hate. I was raised on it. My family, my religion, my friends, my school, my country. These programs are the ones I am seeking to drop. The work is not done.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Posts: 7,469
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Re: Love = Kinship [Re: Icelander]
    #4272833 - 06/08/05 07:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You have said (in the matters most post) that you acknowledge the importance of relationships with others, yet value the relationship you have with yourself more then others.

That's what started your dialog with swami as he pointed out that to have one with yourself you have to split yourself in two and so really there is no difference.

I worked myself through the replies in the "matters most thread" I came up one side and around the other and realized it is one in the same "fundamentally"

I expanded myself through my writings and they ending up fitting everywhere not one or the other. hat just means I was able to take in the 360 full view and come to see all of the sides, yours too.

I also came to understand why I prefer subjective to objective growth myself through these two posts. Thanks guys.

I also came to expand upon my penchant for connecting and relating to people to encompass connecting and relating to everything somehow as it all can serve.


I'm glad you found me moving around the globe to take in all of the views funny. I enjoyed the my travels around it too and laughed as more connections were made where I didn't have the hook ups before. Like walking around the block for exercise, you realize, that from any yard you can cut straight through to your home.

Being multi viewed and opinionated is fun. Gives you lots of flex and bend in life.
:heart:

I'll shut up now. :lipsrsealed:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Love = Kinship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4272871 - 06/08/05 07:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Really Jiggy, :wink: What I most wanted to point out was the fact that the psychedelic experience is powerful and valid. I believe Swami doesn't agree. The rest was a side issue for me. :grin:

You have a nice flow Jiggy. :grin: I do find you amusing, but I get a good laugh at just about everyone here, myself included.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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