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Offlinelonestar2004
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Amnesty concedes no hard evidence
    #4271139 - 06/08/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Amnesty concedes no hard evidence



http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050606-123303-2127r.htm


By James G. Lakely
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


The head of Amnesty International's American branch yesterday acknowledged that he "doesn't know for sure" what is going on at Guantanamo Bay prison, although Amnesty International's secretary-general has called the terrorist prison run at a U.S. military base in Cuba a "gulag."
However, William F. Schulz defended the description made last week by Irene Khan, saying on "Fox News Sunday" yesterday that America's "archipelago of prisons throughout the world" are "similar in character, if not in size" to the Soviet gulags, where millions of political prisoners were killed.







"I don't believe [the charges] are irresponsible," said Mr. Schulz, the executive director of Amnesty International U.S.A. "I've told you the ways in which I think that [there are] analogies between the Soviet prison system and the United States."
Pressed to cite concrete evidence that Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales are the "architects" of "systematic torture" at the prison, Mr. Schulz could produce none.
"We don't know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate," Mr. Schulz said, adding that Amnesty International was careful to use the word "alleged" when accusing high-level Bush administration officials.
More than 28,000 interrogations have taken place at the prison and a report released by Pentagon investigators revealed that 10 charges of abuse were legitimate.
The Pentagon also reported last week that of 20 instances of "desecration" of the Muslim holy book, the Koran, 15 were carried out by prisoners. All of the guards who committed the offenses -- most of them inadvertent -- were reprimanded and/or reassigned.
Mr. Schulz, who gave the maximum amount of $2,000 to Mr. Kerry's presidential campaign, said his political preferences are irrelevant to the report that is harshly critical of Bush administration policies.
"We try to hold up one universal standard for all countries," Mr. Schulz said, adding that the report accusing the U.S. of running a gulag was written by Amnesty International researchers in London. "It has nothing to do with John Kerry."
Two senators, a Democrat and a Republican, suggested yesterday that Congress or an independent commission would hold hearings on the accusations of prisoner abuse at the hands of U.S. forces abroad.
"We should have an independent commission to go take a look at this, not only Guantanamo, but Abu Ghraib, the rest of the prison system, make a recommendation to the United States Congress, and let's deal with this openly," said Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., Delaware Democrat, on ABC's "This Week," adding that he wants the prison at Guantanamo Bay "shut down."
"This has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world, and it is unnecessary to be in that position," he said.
Senate Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, Kentucky Republican, called Amnesty International's "gulag comment utterly outrageous," but acknowledged "it's very difficult to run a perfect prison."
"We have an open country," Mr. McConnell said yesterday on CNN's "Late Edition."
"We have hearings on a whole lot of different subjects. We might well have a hearing on this," he said


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4271144 - 06/08/05 12:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Amnesty International U.S.A has become just the usual boring democrat party phony propaganda front group, like NOW, the ACLU, as well as NBC-ABC-CBS-CNN-NYTIMES-WAPOST-ETC-ETC.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4271186 - 06/08/05 12:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

what are your thoughts of the US sending prisoners to brutual states like Egypt, Syria and Uzbekistan that have lax or even non-existent laws on torture so that the US can torture without worry and to the degree that they want? If the media is so much an arm of the DNC, then why havent this news story been covered as much as it should be?


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/13/04
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Vvellum]
    #4271473 - 06/08/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If someone has commited a crime in one of those nations,then it's our perogative to extradite them. I can't help it if they don't respect human rights. Nor, quite honestly, do I give a fuck. I'm not worried about the fate of someone who was trying to smuggle a ditry bomb into the USA.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Vvellum]
    #4271474 - 06/08/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have not heard that news, but I bet you it came from the New York Times.

and what are my thoughts on it?
Why not hire the best.
After all, the best we could do was take their clothes off and put panties on their head.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4271559 - 06/08/05 01:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm... I heard that the head of Amnesty International, William F. Schulz, likes to rape young boys. I don't have any hard evidence of this, but there are analogies between convicted child rapists and Mr. Schulz. For example, most convicted child rapists, and Mr. Schulz are both male. If the shoe fits...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Seuss]
    #4271643 - 06/08/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Does Mr Shulz also round up young boys and then keep them hostage whilst not telling anyone what he does with them?

Crap analogy Seuss.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: GazzBut]
    #4272932 - 06/08/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Does Mr Shulz also round up young boys and then keep them hostage whilst not telling anyone what he does with them?




Yes, I heard that that is what he does, from an anonymous source, highly placed.


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4273013 - 06/08/05 08:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Government Secrecy Increasing, Anonymous Sources Confirm.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4273045 - 06/08/05 08:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Are they HIGHLY PLACED?


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4274725 - 06/09/05 04:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hey you guys, I just found out, OJ didn't kill anybody! He said so himself.

And MJ didn't touch those boys, either. It's all just an awful conspiracy against him. I heard him say it.

And this one's a whopper. I heard that the US is kidnapping INNOCENT PEOPLE and flying them all around the world just to get their rocks off beating them, not even asking for any information. Some guy who has in the past had proven ties to terrorists told me that's what happened to him when he went on the lam for a few months.

Also, I just bought some awesome beach-front property in Kentucky, anyone wanna come hang out? I haven't been there yet, but the seller sent me a picture, and it looks just like Hawaii! I'm so excited.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #4274962 - 06/09/05 07:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Very amusing guys! So funny I almost split my sides...

The fact of the matter is that Amnesty have based their reports on testimony from people that have been interviewed by lawyers etc inside the prison and also people that have been released. Although they dont have hard evidence their claims have a far more substantial base than the crap you clowns are spouting!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4274965 - 06/09/05 07:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Amnesty was never allowed to enter the prison. They just saw the prison from outside, and came back with a t-shirt that said "i survived guantanamo".

Isn't it logical that if human rights are respected in there, then they would gladly let people investigate? Do you really think that any "hard evidence" of torture is possible to acquire, given that nobody is allowed inside, besides Rumsfeld?

only real possible sources are witnesses of prisoners who have been released, but since you're so convinced that everyone in there is guilty of terrorism then you're not going to believe any of them, and besides that it can only come from the inside guards, and no guards are going to take the risk of betraying their fellow government.

i think in a few years these people won't be able to keep it for themselves anymore and they'll let the whole world know.

but even then, you'll still keep your head in your ass and say, "he's probably the usual boringly phony democrat kind of guy".


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4275179 - 06/09/05 10:44 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I have not heard that news, but I bet you it came from the New York Times.




nope.

Quote:

and what are my thoughts on it?
Why not hire the best.




that's disgusting.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: SoopaX]
    #4275185 - 06/09/05 10:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not worried about the fate of someone who was trying to smuggle a ditry bomb into the USA.




why are you so sure that those who have been imprisoned are guilty of such things? do you really have that much faith in the government?

here is one example of many: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn...p;notFound=true


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Vvellum]
    #4275273 - 06/09/05 11:36 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You mean to tell me that our Government detained a terror suspect and deported him to his Native country, HOW WRETCHED!



a lawsuit is being prepared against our government by "Mr. Arars and American Lawyers",

well I wonder if these geniuses ever thought of suing the men who actually did the alleged torturing.

Is anyone suing Syria?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4275617 - 06/09/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

He was a Canadian citizen. Why not send him to his actual country where the man could charged and provided a fair trial instead of a brutal regime (the same type of brutal regime that I thought the US was supposed be liberating the world from) only for toture and so-called "infomation extraction"?

Oh, and have you noticed that the man in question was innocent?


Edited by bi0 (06/09/05 01:45 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: GazzBut]
    #4275675 - 06/09/05 01:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> Crap analogy Seuss.

It is a perfect analogy, and you made my point. Stating something witout hard evidence holds no water at all. My claim about the Schulz guy raping little boys is just as valid as his claims about Guantanamo Bay prison. No evidence means he doesn't know one way or the other. He might suspect, but he doesn't know... and since he doesn't know for certain, he shouldn't make accusations, especially when he is in such a respected position.

> Yes, I heard that that is what he does, from an anonymous source, highly placed.

Obviously somebody understood my point.


--------------------
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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Seuss]
    #4275885 - 06/09/05 02:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Never fear; I'm loading up MSWord as we speak. Soon my anonymous source will leak a damning document to me.. soon as this writer's block clears up.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Amnesty concedes no hard evidence [Re: Seuss]
    #4276200 - 06/09/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stating something witout hard evidence holds no water at all.




Which is what you have done.

However, stating something based on testimony of people who have actually been in guantanomo is a little different wouldnt you say?

Obviously not but you are well within your rights to be wrong!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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