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OfflineWonderlandsTrip
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Salvia theories. A query.
    #4270543 - 06/08/05 03:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Today I may have had the most intense hallucogenic experience of my life. I've had my fair share of mushrooms, LSD and salvia, but even so, I don't think it has ever been anything this overwhelmingly mind boggling.

My friend had gotten a hold of some 20x salvia extract. I took one bong load and...............

This isn't the right forum to explain my trip, but in short, my universe was thrown on the ground and spit on.

I need some answers, or rather, I need something to refer to, something to look at. There has to be more to it.

I almost believe that I was in a whole nother dimension. I need someone to tell me "no, no one else feels this way", or "Yeah, there is others that have said the same thing and this is what they have to say about it."

I'm the kind of person who NEEDS to get as much out of a psychadelic experience as possible. I want to know exactly where I was, what I was experiencing, or the lack there of.

Is there any theories on what happens when we trip. Espessially on salvia.


Please help.


--------------------
I learned a lot
from smoking pot.
Then again, maybe not...
Can't remember what I forgot
-!!!



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OfflineOmEgAx1
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4270725 - 06/08/05 05:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Feeling like you are in another dimension is a VERY common feeling, I feel it, most of my friends feel it.

Personally I try to think about a salvia trip as compared to lets say a mushroom trip like this....

Mushrooms trip is like taking what you know about reality and building up ontop of it. Adding extra to whats already there, sometimes if you eat too much, the extra added outweighs whats actually there, and you end up with something completely different.

Salvia trip is like taking what you know about reality, stripping most (if not all) of that away (depending how much you smoke) and the trip is your mind quickly rebuilding reality back to normal.


This I think is why Mushrooms make you feel "enlightened" or enhanced in some way, and salvia makes you feel retarded at best, almost like a newborn trying to make sense of all the sensory input for the first time. The way the trips even look visually seems to support the idea.

Personally I think anyone who claims to see full blown vivid clear understandable images (that they understood WHILE tripping not after) on Salvia is simply lying, I personally dont know anyone who truely has, and the majority of the salvia hallucination seems to be misinterpretations of objects, even common ones.

The common visual hallucination on salvia can best be described as "bricks", almost like even visually reality is trying to rebuild. Anything beyond that, again, simply misinterpretations of patterns.

You can say im wrong all you want, but Ive smoked more salvia than almost anyone on this forum, considering I used to do it daily for a while to take advantage of the reverse tolerance effect, and I carefully tried to make sense of what im actually seeing and feeling and what I THINK im seeing and feeling, which while on salvia, dont match up.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4270739 - 06/08/05 06:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

all natural
even the urge to have an understanding of incomprehensible things you have been intimate with.
I have written this ( http://tinyurl.com/cwtbg )to help with many of the questions. it is a bit of a slog, but you may come to some satisfaction or at least know you are not alone.
Quote:


salvia has no physical downside (IMO), and I think none is likely. Mentally, the whole SALVIA scale of experience is possible, and dosage control is not easy, though never physically damaging.

IMO there are no new things going to emerge that were not already present, but new combinations will appear or may emerge from smearing up to 50 or more mind moments together, and that whole thing could take time to recover from or to get used to.





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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4270880 - 06/08/05 09:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm the kind of person who NEEDS to get as much out of a psychadelic experience as possible. I want to know exactly where I was, what I was experiencing, or the lack there of.

____________________________________________________________________

You can want all you like but no one to my knowledge can answer your questions in more than a subjective way. Why do you "need" to know these things? You may be getting sidetracked by this. I often look at the experience as I would a dream. I try an interpetation based on what I felt or am feeling after the experience. Since you can't figure it all out, come up with whatever you want. With Salvia you get a peek behind the curtain so to speak. But just a peak with no final answers. It's amazing and seemingly endless. :heart: :cool: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: Icelander]
    #4271009 - 06/08/05 10:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm the kind of person who NEEDS to get as much out of a psychadelic experience as possible. I want to know exactly where I was, what I was experiencing, or the lack there of.

____________________________________________________________________

You can want all you like but no one to my knowledge can answer your questions in more than a subjective way. Why do you "need" to know these things? You may be getting sidetracked by this. I often look at the experience as I would a dream. I try an interpetation based on what I felt or am feeling after the experience. Since you can't figure it all out, come up with whatever you want. With Salvia you get a peek behind the curtain so to speak. But just a peak with no final answers. It's amazing and seemingly endless. :heart: :cool: :mushroom2:




relaxing is very important.
the passionate orientation to understanding is very good, you want to be receptive, and to be still like the surface of the lake at dawn.
I don't think it is just facts you wish to know, but how experiencing is integrated and to see how you are part of all that which is.

where limits exist, how are they transcended, and what sacrifices are required to do so can become an issue; or they can become the fabric of identity itself - and a key to no-separation


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4271154 - 06/08/05 12:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

""my universe was thrown on the ground and spit on.""

... I had something on my mind..


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4271480 - 06/08/05 01:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Trip Report: My first dance with the Lady a few years ago::

--

My apologies for the coarseness of this trip report. It?s the day after and I won?t have time to write for the next few days. Better a coarse report with the experience fresh in my mind than a polished report days later, so here it is?

I?d been wanting to dance with Lady Salvia for a long time and things finally came together this week. A close friend and frequent rolling/tripping buddy had some 5X which he?d given me about a month before. I was saving it until we could try it together and the opportunity was finally here. He?d done it before and offered to baby-sit me on my first trip which I was grateful for.

We were sitting on the floor in my party room. Based on my usual lively physical reaction to nitrous oxide, we decided to move some of the furniture and put away the breakables. It was mid-morning on a sunny day. The blinds were open, and I could see the sky from my sitting position on the floor. The swimming pool and whirlpool in the back yard were shimmering in the bright sunlight, and my cat was curled up on the floor nearby. I prepared myself as much as one can for this kind of thing, took a deep breath, then loaded the bong. My sitter helped me hold the bong as I put the flame to it and began inhaling.

The first thing I noticed was that the taste was different then weed; not better or worse, but definitely different? sharper. I inhaled as much as I could, then put the bong down on the floor. My sitter looked at me; the question in his mind obvious on his face: ?Do you feel it yet??. I held my hand up and rocked it to indicate that I felt something but not much yet. About 20 seconds passed; this is about the time it takes blood to return along the pulmonary vain to the heart, exit the aorta, and reach the brain and I thought I should be feeling something by that time. I looked around the room and noticed that things began to have a distinct edge. It looked like a picture in PhotoShop to which the Edge effect was added. The edges of objects drew my attention more than the centers. I also felt as if I was floating on a rubber raft on a carpet of water and waves were propagating under me. The period of the waves was about a half second and I thought, ?Hmm? delta brainwaves.? Delta waves are normally associated with deep, dreamless, non-REM sleep. I don?t know if there was a relation there, but it was interesting to consider.

I noticed that the carefully-selected trippy music I had playing sounded flat and boring as if the bass and treble controls had been set all the way down. The volume seemed to have dropped significantly also. I made a mental note of how irrelevant the music seemed to have become, and continued to hold my breath.

I finally exhaled and pointed at the bong; my sitter quickly reloaded. This time, heeding his warning that I might drop it, I left the bong on the floor as I took my second hit. I drew in as much as I could then held it for about 20 seconds. I exhaled fully, then took in one last big draw as the effect began to intensify. I started intentionally rocking (or at least I thought I did) at the same rate as the waves that were passing by underneath me. It?s a meditation technique called Brainwave Entrainment which I?ve used before. The idea is to intentionally emphasize certain brainwaves by using external stimuli or body or thought rhythms at the rate of the target brainwave. I don?t know if it made any difference, but the wave effect definitely continued to intensify.

As I sat there feeling the waves they began to become visible in the carpet, walls, and furniture. Then, the character of the waves changed from gentle, smooth, and rolling to abrupt with a steep attack and decay.

The waves began to separate into individual creatures each sticking out of things, then receding back in unison. They were everywhere; the walls, furniture, floor. The ones on the floor kept trying to poke their head out but I was sitting on them and as they pushed, I could feel them distinctly pushing against my butt and legs. The pushing got stronger, and I almost fell over and had to hold onto the couch next to me. I discovered later that this effect is called Salvia Gravity; it's an apt name.

Next, the creatures pushed completely out of things and stood like tall insects? like those brown walking-sticks you see on bushes sometimes. They didn?t seem threatening and they didn?t communicate with me. It was more like they were there all my life minding their own business and I just happened to notice them for the first time. I watched fascinated as the holes they wiggled out of began to grow in the same fashion that a crack spreads through glass. The cracks continued to spread from hundreds of holes where the walking-sticks came out of. Then, as one crack met another, they joined and that part of reality fell away leaving nothing in its place. It was like what existed before the Big Bang. Not emptiness? that?s something. What was left in those holes was beyond emptiness. It was non-existence. There was no time, no space, no constructs of mathematics? nothing. It was very strange.

I felt something on my lower lip and realized I was drooling. This brought me back to reality somewhat, and I wiped my chin, then stood and walked to the kitchen for a paper towel. The spit in my mouth felt like it had congealed into something with the consistency of chewing gum. I spit it out in the sink and rinsed my mouth out, then walked back to where my sitter was.

Things were starting to return to normal by this time. The stick-creatures were gone and there was only the wave effect left. I took a few deep breaths and smiled at my sitter who said something like ?see what I mean? it?s not the kind of thing you?d want to do all the time.? He was right.

As the effect continued to ebb, I noticed that the trip somehow had a familiar quality to it. It felt like I?d tripped on Salvia as a child. I know this to be untrue, but I couldn?t shake the intense feeling of familiarity. It also seemed like, when I?d seemingly tripped on Salvia as a child, it was in a forest with aboriginal or South American natives. Some may suggest a prior life? I don?t believe in that sort of thing? but?

After a few more minutes, most of the effect had gone and I was left with a very weird trip to think about. All told, I?m glad for the experience which while almost unbearably intense, and not exactly fun, was intriguing. I?m looking forward to my next dance.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: Diploid]
    #4271509 - 06/08/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Rock on Diploid. It's pretty strange, that Salvia experience. Great trip report. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: Diploid]
    #4272027 - 06/08/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I read that report with rapt attention and glee.


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OfflineWonderlandsTrip
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Here's my trip report. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4272536 - 06/08/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have to say, I was tripping in a bad atmosphere. Afterward, I almost feel like I had raped the drug, because I feel that I did not respect it properly, and it had been quite a while since my last lady trip, so my memory was vague. I certainly didn't expect what had come to me.

I snapped a decent bowl of 20x salvia out of a 2 foot Roor bong, and held it in until I forgot how to breathe.

Everything was suddenly extremely pixilated. My view of the world transformed into a 2D screen. I can't neccesarily make out what I saw, but it almost seemed like fragments, or slices of the 2D world in front of me, moving to the corner of my "screen".

I felt like a newborn immediately thrown into the universe without any prior speculation. There was something I needed to do, and somewhere I needed to go. It was almost like a game, and I was losing. I didn't know what was going on, or even that I just smoked salvia.

I had an odd thought, that I just came DOWN from a hallucinogen, and now I was in the real world, but I didn't know how to handle it, or know what to do with it.

At this point, I know longer knew I was a person, or even seperate from anything else. I thought, or rather knew, I was part of my vision, and felt I needed to go along side it.

The intuition that I had to get to one of these "slices" of the universe was horribly aggravating, espessially since I was being forced down by gravity in all direction (like I was being squeezed together), and something was pulling me away from where I wanted to go.


It turns out I was running straight toward a cliff, and my friends were pulling me back. I wasn't walking, I was running full speed.

I was overwhelmed, so my friends sat my in a car where I layed down and tried to comprehend everything that was going on around me.

My universe had just been thrown on the ground and spit on, and I was resisting. It wasn't a pleasent feeling.

By this time, my visuals mellowed down to a very distorted "reality", with slight movement, and pixilation.

Overall, I don't regret a thing.


--------------------
I learned a lot
from smoking pot.
Then again, maybe not...
Can't remember what I forgot
-!!!



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OfflineWonderlandsTrip
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Re: Here's my trip report. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4272550 - 06/08/05 06:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What I was trying to ask earlier is if there is any theories on what a hallucinogenic trip might be.


--------------------
I learned a lot
from smoking pot.
Then again, maybe not...
Can't remember what I forgot
-!!!



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Here's my trip report. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4272890 - 06/08/05 07:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yes, specifically, sensory events begin fading more slowly but continue to arise at the same rate in your brain from all sources.
you begin to have multiple simultaneous existences, all equally as yet unfaded.
you try to smooth it into something sane (as you usually do to visual fragments to make a 3-d world).
the smoothing works accross time as well as within the moment, so pixellated visual data can stretch into weird pixellated forms - or overlay blends can occurr - feelings of inside and outside can merge to unity (and they truly are unity as they persist as coincident even having started at different times)

- does it help?


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OfflineWonderlandsTrip
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Re: Here's my trip report. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4274354 - 06/09/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't even know anymore.


--------------------
I learned a lot
from smoking pot.
Then again, maybe not...
Can't remember what I forgot
-!!!



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Here's my trip report. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4274367 - 06/09/05 02:17 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)


Good, then you're in a good spot to have an open mind about everything. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOmEgAx1
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Re: Here's my trip report. [Re: Icelander]
    #4274740 - 06/09/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What I was trying to ask earlier is if there is any theories on what a hallucinogenic trip might be.





My Theory -
Quote:


Posts: 82
Theory to explain the manifestation of visual hallucinations
#4093812 - 04/24/05 11:50 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Alright for some odd reason I suddenly came up with a theory to explain the reason you get visual hallucinations on certain substances, which has yet to be explained. There are several parts to this theory and its lengthy so Ill just try to cover it point by point, each point in itself may be true or false but they are inter-related though proving one false doesnt necessaraly mean the others are... and covers more than just the idea of visual hallucinations... so let me shoot...

Your field of view has constant static. This is a fact. If you try really hard you can look at a blank surface and in the background is static nott much different than that of a TV set with no reception. You can see this more clearly by either closing your eyes or sitting in a pitch black room. I could come up with hundreds of reason for the cause of it but its irrelevant. You can notice unique patterns in TV static with enough focus, and no 2 people will percieve the same patterns. I theorize when you dream, its simply another function of your brain, basically a function working on abstract thoughts and such on a different brain wave frequency, your mind percieves this static, easily creating patterns out of this static eventually being percieved as full images. Note when you dream your eye "twitches", im saying you may actually be literally looking at different areas, your mind creating images from the patterns it percieves from this static.

When you dream, there are noticable brain wave patterns that shut off and others that turn on to induce the state of dreaming. In a dream there is a sense of extreme time dilation, that is, a dream may seem to last hours though in reality it probably only was 5 minutes.

When you consume a hallucinogenic substance, I theorize it artificially activates the dream perception and abstract thought processes of the brain in one way or another, but without shutting down the concious thought processes. One point to this is brain wave readings during hallucinations have increases in the type of brain waves seen during a dreaming state of mind. Another point is the severe time dilation, also seen in dreaming. Yet another point is your thought process patterns during a trip is very akin to that when you are dreaming with one key difference, the inclusion of concious thought.

So if your dream state is switched on, which creates images from the static we see, and your concious thought is still on as well, you could infer that the process for visual perception combines the ideas of the dream visuals with that of the concious field of view, and the blending of these 2 visual inputs bring what is a hallucination. With very high doses of hallucinogens however, the concious visual field is superceded by the dream visual field, losing all sense of reality, but concious thought is still fully functioning, while a very intense state of dream is also activated. This would explain the effects of different potency of hallucinogens to the effects it has.

One idea to explain the reasoning for different forms of visual hallucinations with diferent hallucinogens would simply be its chemical makeup affecting different areas of the thought processes and different states of dream basically.

I am, however, not suggesting that a trip is simply your dream mode turned on, but im suggesting it is a very large portion of the mental processes happening during a trip.





http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4093812/page//fpart/1/vc/1


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4274748 - 06/09/05 04:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If it makes you feel better it is very common to feel like you are traveling on other planes of reality. Iv felt this almost every hallucinogenic experience Iv had in my life.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: WonderlandsTrip]
    #4274815 - 06/09/05 05:22 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You disrupted normal neuronal functioning with a chemical and got unpredictable results. No theory needed.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: Swami]
    #4274889 - 06/09/05 06:20 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You went beyond the boundries of multiplicity and became the one.

In normal life you concieve destiny from a human (separated entity) confusion (separation) point of view. This time you concieved yourself from destinys point of view.

You were shunted down the myriad of parallell reality which exists in your mind, down and to the left, and you sailed the wave of existance with *all* knowledge. This is the feeling of infancy.

At this point you can choose your personal destiny (slice), because you have access to every point of the universe of space and time, which is nothing more than a dream to begin (and end) with.

It is no way to verify, due to the fact that there are no points of reference available. But I believe most people come back, and calculate the return to be so-and-so many minutes after the toke - which would comply with the "force" you felt.

You left a memory trace, which acted itself out in the "real" world via your friends. They pulled your body back from certain death, in perfect accordance with your becoming alive (piecing reality back together).

You have no control. What must happen, will happen.

You have seen your entire life, and probarly everybody elses too, but by the power of forgetfulness, which makes the separation complete, you have blessed yourself with the ability to discover everything for the first time...again.

You have tripped before.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: Swami]
    #4276312 - 06/09/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
You disrupted normal neuronal functioning with a chemical and got unpredictable results. No theory needed.



really?
do you know what normal functioning means?

this is the very lens with which to see what mentation is about.
yes, a distortion is produced, what is the distortion? Once apprehended, then you can look at what is happenning without the distortion more clearly.

rather than abandon this, "no theory required", rally round this and look into it with your full attention.

this distortion is a lens and mirror and matter all at the same time.
walk away only if you are not up to looking at your own image.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Salvia theories. A query. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4276421 - 06/09/05 04:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

do you know what normal functioning means?
Yes.

rather than abandon this, "no theory required",
Don't worry, I won't.

rally round this and look into it with your full attention.
OK, my furniture REALLY IS composed of hyper-dimensional stick-figure creatures?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Sneezy 2,771 64 05/07/07 07:12 PM
by fireworks_god

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