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OfflineDeltarious
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what a reputation
    #4269675 - 06/07/05 11:02 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

It sure seems that LSD has a real bad rep. When mentioning that I have done LSD people freak out and think im crazy and these people are people who drink till their liver hurts. I told them that when the drink like that that it's probably worse for. When I said this they laughed and said "Yeah okay..". These uninformed people really piss me off (These are the same people(assholes) that don't know that "acid" is lsd). So what I want to know is what is worse for you dropping some tabs or indulging in a large amount of alcohol.


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Invisibleroby000
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Deltarious]
    #4269695 - 06/07/05 11:07 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

i think a few bad apples have ruiened acid for society that and alot of people abuse liqour so they would naturally abuse any narcotic and because they know they get horribly drunk they fear themselves getting "high" on lsd
imo


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OfflineT85
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Deltarious]
    #4269723 - 06/07/05 11:17 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

We live in a 'drugs'er bad..mmkay?' society. When I mention LSD I hear so much bullshit from people its unbelievable, even from those who have tried mushrooms. They just don't know the real facts, and probably never will. It's even worse when you try to talk sense into them, never ever works....


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Offlineshroomanic
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Re: what a reputation [Re: T85]
    #4270017 - 06/08/05 12:40 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

I know exactly what you mean. I was really suprised one day though because this really christian was talking good things about LSD and another christian just a while ago was talking about shrooms too. Both were saying they don't do anything at all harmful to your body (they had to research it!). I hate dumbasses who don't research anything. This one girl told me shrooms cause brain damage and make the brain bleed...hahah, i felt like killing her. :smile:


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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,165
Re: what a reputation [Re: shroomanic]
    #4270355 - 06/08/05 02:31 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Ill show you bleeding brain beeoootch! :chainsaw:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Deltarious]
    #4270789 - 06/08/05 07:28 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Some people should never EVER take a single blotter, because it can destroy their entire lives completely.

On the other hand a lifelong relationship with alcohol destroys lives too.

I think that if you took 2.000.000 people and introduced half to LSD and the other half to Alcohol, I believe the LSD group will have a higher incidence of transient crises (freakouts and prolonged reactions), but that in the long run the Alcohol group will see far more lives destroyed than LSD would.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4270849 - 06/08/05 08:39 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Look at it in terms of deaths due to acute intoxication. Alcohol causes far more damage than LSD.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: what a reputation [Re: badchad]
    #4270879 - 06/08/05 09:07 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Every time someone tells me that taking shrooms or acid makes my brain bleed, I just say "if that was true I would be in the hospital a lot, a bleeding brain is a pretty serious problem you know".


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: what a reputation [Re: badchad]
    #4270883 - 06/08/05 09:12 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Deaths wouldnt be a fair measure because direct intoxication with LSD doesnt kill healthy people.

If you look at lives destroyed however both do that, but i strongly believe alcohol does on a vastly larger scale.

For 12 years mushrooms are sold in SHOPS in Holland. Freely available to those interested. Is everybody getting high? Not in the least. The Dutch situation proves that legally available Psychedelics will not lead to a societal problem at all.

Perhaps 1% of people is a psychedelics user, even if they are sold in 100s of shops for about $15 for 1/8 oz.
This is PROVEN by the Dutch experiment.


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Edited by Asante (06/08/05 09:13 AM)


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4270981 - 06/08/05 10:33 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

What do you mean by LSD destroying lives? I have not witnessed this at all in people that I know that have tried or do the drug. Could you be more specific. I wouldn't consider it the LSD destroying a life if it aggravates a pre-existing condition in the user.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 11,929
Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4271052 - 06/08/05 11:18 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Deaths wouldnt be a fair measure because direct intoxication with LSD doesnt kill healthy people.





That was my point. Speaking strictly in terms of physical health the consequences of alcohol outweigh those of LSD.

As far as "destroying lives" I agree that alcohol seems to be "worse" although this is a highly subjective opinion.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (06/08/05 11:25 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: what a reputation [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4271104 - 06/08/05 11:43 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I wouldn't consider it the LSD destroying a life if it aggravates a pre-existing condition in the user.




Thats disqualifying a whole lot, because since it doesnt happen to the majority you can always argue it was a pre-existing disorder.

"Alcohol didnt nuke his liver, he had a weak liver to begin with."
"Alcohol isnt addictive: addiction-prone people tend to abuse it and lack the willpower to quit."

If people enter a trip a bit quiet and withdrawn and exit a trip stark raving psychotic and they end up in a psychiatic hospital for a long time i'd say LSD destroyed his life. (at least for the most part)
I dont care he was predisposed to psychosis: the trip brought it on.

If someone jumps out a window in a bad trip or in front of a bus and yells -halt!- while high LSD brought on their death.

People don't "think they can fly", thats what the bystanders think up to try explain the scene. A bad trip can bring on such abysmal despair and desperation and utter anguish that people see no way out but out the twentieth floor window.

If someone after a trip ends up beside the point, and tries his whole life to get back to it... He's a psychedelic casualty.

Or what if someone gets heavy HPPD in the sixties and continues to trip balls 24/7 without drugs? HPPD is a non-psychological state where trip effects persist beyond the drugs duration, and is only caused by previous use of psychedelics, sometimes even once.

I myself have aquired slight HPPD two years ago and have, lessay, been tripping for 20.000 hours straight.
Pre-existing condition I'm sure but without hallucinogens no HPPD.
Now I am by no means a victim (though some would feel they were) but I WOULD be if I *tripped balls* for 20.000 hours straight.

How about the stresses of a psychedelic experience causing a nervous breakdown, ruins a marriage, causes a traffic accident, status epilepticus seizures, a heart attack etc etc?

All these things *happen* and have been happening since the 1950s. Oh yeah and guess what: smoking weed does cause lung cancer.

Let's be honest and not kid ourselves: Psychedelics can be highly destructive if used wrongly, or for the wrong reasons, or by the wrong people.

Psychedelics are drugs. That means they are good nor evil, but rather neutral. Neutral means however that there are great tragedies for all the great successes.

It's not a kind of sugar that happens to make you trip: Scientists have accidentally killed an ELEPHANT with LSD when they tried to use that to make the beastie horny to produce offspring for the zoo.

Psychedelics also are associated with people who are breathtakingly irrsponsible or make miserable life decisions. People who get sincerely weird and drift away from consensus reality.

Let's face the reality that LSD can be utmostly harmful and lets try to counter that by acknowledging it and trying to keep the harm from happening any way we can.

THE SHROOMERY -- STOPPING THE SPREAD OF DANGEROUS MISINFORMATION SO THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY PUT IN THEIR BODIES.

Let's take responsibility and act accordingly.

Thousands of people die every year because they, by misinformation and not giving a fuck, choose to *smoke* their marijuana, which all could be prevented if they *ate it* and chose safety over a quick fix.
So if pot isnt harmless...

Hey dont take this post the wrong way, its nothing but friendly discussion  :thumbup:


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Edited by Asante (06/08/05 11:48 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4271142 - 06/08/05 12:02 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

playing with the smeariness of consciousness is not less than playing with the fabric of life itself.

we must be allowed to play with this - our fabric, it is our true legacy, but we need to understand that it has risks, and we need to respect other peoples boundaries (however arbitrary).


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4271160 - 06/08/05 12:10 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Screw em i say! So many thousands, probably millions and millions people have done LSD, and you don't see our psychiatric wards filled up with crazies (at least not any more than usual) and at least i haven't heard of ACTUAL brain bleeding or any sort of ACTUAL damage done by LSD. There is, however, volumes and volumes of text on how much alcohol can fuck your life up, from addiction to overdose, not to mention the prevoiusly stated effect on the liver.

So yeah, screw em if they want to kill they're bodies with alcohol. I'd rather expand my mind with other, safer substances.


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Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4271250 - 06/08/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:


If someone jumps out a window in a bad trip or in front of a bus and yells -halt!- while high LSD brought on their death.




I sorry but if someone does something like that under the influence then its not the drugs fault its the persons. We don't say it was the alcohols fault if someone kills someone in a DUI accident they go to prison. People are responsible for their own actions regardless what substance they are on at least in the eyes of the law.

Quote:

If someone after a trip ends up beside the point, and tries his whole life to get back to it... He's a psychedelic casualty.




I'm not positive what you mean by this but if it's what I think it is I think it makes many of us psychedelic casualties. When I trip I often times get(but not always) tremendous revelations and insight. Some call it enlightenment. The thing is for me it's tough to completely integrate these experiences into my everyday life thus I return to the trip by taking the substances from time to time trying to get back to it. If we got the point then we would only need to take the psychedelic one time and in a sense have gotten the message and could then hang up the phone.

Quote:

How about the stresses of a psychedelic experience causing a nervous breakdown, ruins a marriage, causes a traffic accident, status epilepticus seizures, a heart attack etc etc?




Again I think some responsibility lies in these particular users hands. I mean if they were of sound mind to begin with I don't think the psychedelic is enough to cause a nervous break down. Those people obviously had no regard for their set. Which is a very important factor in how the trip will turn out.  A Traffic accident again that's the irresponsibility of the user that DUI they are criminally liable. Epilepsy, they should know better to take a drug like that with their condition.

Quote:

All these things *happen* and have been happening since the 1950s. Oh yeah and guess what: smoking weed does cause lung cancer.




As does smoking anything. Drugs are definitely not completely safe they have their rewards and risks like everything in life.

Quote:

Let's be honest and not kid ourselves: Psychedelics can be highly destructive if used wrongly, or for the wrong reasons, or by the wrong people.




You put it best there. People using them to just get fucked up will have their asses handed to them. People who are cautious should most times be okay.


Quote:

Hey don't take this post the wrong way, its nothing but friendly discussion  :thumbup:




Not at all. There are probably a few freak instances of unpredicted side affects but for the most part allot of the examples you provided could have been avoided with proper set/setting and just being a responsible person. If a person is irresponsible it's not the drugs fault, the drug is just a tool. A hammer can be used to build and destroy.


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: what a reputation [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4271392 - 06/08/05 01:17 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

SET (person/psychology) and SETTING (enviroment)

The major thing is that some SETs are incompatible with LSD. People can be perfectly normal but have a slight defect that manifests as a major problem under LSD for the very first time.

Nobody saw it coming.

That means that nobody knows he can safely use psychedelics. The only way you can get a stable assumption is to actually take it a few dozen times and NOT ending up in tragedy.
What if you can only check whether a gun is unloaded by firing it at yourself? That is the situation with psychedelics.

Fortunately we can predict that certain people will probably fare poorly on LSD and we should keep these people from harming themselves or others with them whenever possible.

But you don't *know* your health can bare it until you do it X times and either fail or succeed.

I smoked weed for 12 years before I discovered that the chestpains i got from weed were in fact near-heartattacks (angina pectoris)
How did i find out? By HAVING a heart attack and almost dying because of it. I am 1:25.000 people with a certain cardiovascular disorder. Who wouldve thought? I have ran 10 miles at 250lbs and had no problems, but I had HUNDREDS of near heart-attacks by cannabis.
And if you add mild HPPD to the mix :wink:
Theres no way of knowing!


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: what a reputation [Re: Asante]
    #4271450 - 06/08/05 01:30 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

I guess we can agree to disagree then. If I start to see more of these casualtys IRL then I might start to side with you but for now all the people who I have seen use moderation with these substances have faired well. My experiences might be an exception though. Do you still trip now that you know you have HPPD/heart problems? I am assuming you no longer do cannabis because of the heart problem but what about tripping?


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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