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 Rudra
Enlightened
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 154
Loc: Potala
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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 Zen 
#4269509 - 06/07/05 08:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Zen is a found in water and nor. It is found in taking a poop or farting, even puking. It is found is simpleness and complexity. It is found in everything. No where zen can not be found. I am a zen master. I sit by the waters edge. Showing you illusion is simply disappearing. Illusion is in it self. All zen addicts a like.
#1) When you fart you are only heard.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269521 - 06/07/05 08:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You are a zen master? 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rudra
Enlightened
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 154
Loc: Potala
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Yes, as ive consantly drank from the well water where no mud exists. Too the point heroin addicts are zen.
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orechron
LIVEWRONG
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Fallout Zone
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269538 - 06/07/05 08:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Coherency is so totally not zen.
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Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269551 - 06/07/05 08:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh I get it. You're a zen heroin addict. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rudra
Enlightened
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 154
Loc: Potala
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Nope never done heroin.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269601 - 06/07/05 08:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Then how do you know what heroin addicts are? 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269746 - 06/07/05 09:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Where it is not found is in pointless rambling about water and being a zen master.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Bodhibiscuit
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 89
Loc: Christchurch, NZ
Last seen: 1 month, 24 days
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Reputable zen masters don't normally go around spouting inanities on the message boards of online psychedelic mushroom communities.
Self-proclaimed zen masters on the other hand...
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
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 Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4269836 - 06/07/05 09:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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So tell me, someone. What exactly is Zen? And please bear in mind that I am one the unelightened unwashed....
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Rudra
Enlightened
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 154
Loc: Potala
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Inane = illusion
Everything is an illusion.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Here is what I found:
"Zen is the Japanese name of a well known branch of Mahayana Butthism, practiced originally in China as Chan, and subsequently in Aldaaran, Japan, and Vietnam. Zen emphasizes the role of meditation (zazen) in pursuing enlightenment. Besides this, it has been called "a complete waste of time, work, and art."
Zen is considered by some as not necessarily a Buddhist religion as a number of non-Buddhists, particularly Christians, have been formally acknowledged as Zen masters. Zen is often described as a way of life not dependent on one's particular culture.
Many youths in the Beat generation and among the hippies of the 1960s and 1970s misunderstood the goals and methods of Zen. While the scholar D.T. Suzuki may have brought attention to concepts in Zen such as humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the "hip" subculture often focused on states of consciousness in themselves. Japanese Zen master Zenkei Shibayama commented: "It may be true that the effect which such scientifically prepared drugs as LSD produce may have some superficial resemblance to some aspects of Zen experience.... When the effect of the drug is gone, the psychological experience one may have had is also weakened and dispersed, and does not endure as a living fact."
Note: This is researched info...not my take.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I'm curious, did zenkei ever try any of these drugs he commented on?
Does anyone know? Psychedelics are a shock to the personality structure, or ego IMO. That shock can open some doors to the infinite. Still you have to use your will to walk through those doors. Psychedelics alone can't do that for you, not on a permanent basis. I know lots of folks who meditate, some for many years. Some have a lot of trouble in day to day reality. So.... 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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I have to agree with the guy on that point. For most people the entheogenic experience leaves no lasting footprint. Acid might make one see the need for change, but only motivated action combined with follow-through will acomplish this. In the end most people see their vision of their potential self while on acid as an illusion that cannot be realized because it is based in fantasy. An entheogenic experience (after a very long abstinence from such things) brought me back to my roots and motivated me to kick a 5 case (beer) a week alcohol addiction. The entheogen did not do the work, but provided the motivation.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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It must be said that one's image of self is but a reflection one sees. LSD is but a mirror, as are other people's opinions or your own opinions. All reflections are illusions, BUT by tailoring the illusion we subscribe to, one can alter the objkective reality of the self. When an illusion of self has lost it's practicality it must be discarded to be replaced by a more relevant illusion (dream?) of self. While the self does have an objective reality, it does not have a subjective reality, so any reflection you percieve is based on the mirror you use.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Yes!
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Yes again! 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Here is what I found:
"Zen is the Japanese name of a well known branch of Mahayana Butthism, practiced originally in China as Chan, and subsequently in Aldaaran, Japan, and Vietnam. Zen emphasizes the role of meditation (zazen) in pursuing enlightenment. Besides this, it has been called "a complete waste of time, work, and art."
Zen is considered by some as not necessarily a Buddhist religion as a number of non-Buddhists, particularly Christians, have been formally acknowledged as Zen masters. Zen is often described as a way of life not dependent on one's particular culture.
Many youths in the Beat generation and among the hippies of the 1960s and 1970s misunderstood the goals and methods of Zen. While the scholar D.T. Suzuki may have brought attention to concepts in Zen such as humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the "hip" subculture often focused on states of consciousness in themselves. Japanese Zen master Zenkei Shibayama commented: "It may be true that the effect which such scientifically prepared drugs as LSD produce may have some superficial resemblance to some aspects of Zen experience.... When the effect of the drug is gone, the psychological experience one may have had is also weakened and dispersed, and does not endure as a living fact."
Note: This is researched info...not my take.
Ah..that clears things up a little bit. Thank you. I do try to practice humility, labor, service, gratitude, and a bit of meditation in my daily life, and I think these are important qualities, not that I'm saying I'm some sort of Zen Master or anything....
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ilithmar
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 14
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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For understanding Zen (or Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, or the subject of reality itself), I HIGHLY recommend reading/listening to some Alan Watts. He explains it very clearly, www.deoxy.org has a good section on him (the site may be down at the moment, but google him or find some of his stuff on a file-sharing program).
Rudra, perhaps i could be your disciple? Please explain how everything is an illusion, i am thirsty for enlightenment.
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Bodhibiscuit
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 89
Loc: Christchurch, NZ
Last seen: 1 month, 24 days
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The writings of Alan Watts have worth, but more from an intellectual and scholastic point of view. I first came across zen through reading The Way of Zen by Watts, but although he knew a lot about the subject of eastern philosophy and religion, in the end he was not at peace with himself and died an alcoholic. If you're interested in actually 'doing' Zen rather than learning about it, it's a good idea to find a zen group near where you live, or failing that read books by teachers who have walked the path themselves, people like like Robert Aitken, Shunryu Suzuki, Philip Kapleau and Bernard Glassman to name a few.
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Here is what I found:
"Zen is the Japanese name of a well known branch of Mahayana Butthism, practiced originally in China as Chan, and subsequently in Aldaaran, Japan, and Vietnam. Zen emphasizes the role of meditation (zazen) in pursuing enlightenment. Besides this, it has been called "a complete waste of time, work, and art."
Zen is considered by some as not necessarily a Buddhist religion as a number of non-Buddhists, particularly Christians, have been formally acknowledged as Zen masters. Zen is often described as a way of life not dependent on one's particular culture.
Many youths in the Beat generation and among the hippies of the 1960s and 1970s misunderstood the goals and methods of Zen. While the scholar D.T. Suzuki may have brought attention to concepts in Zen such as humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the "hip" subculture often focused on states of consciousness in themselves. Japanese Zen master Zenkei Shibayama commented: "It may be true that the effect which such scientifically prepared drugs as LSD produce may have some superficial resemblance to some aspects of Zen experience.... When the effect of the drug is gone, the psychological experience one may have had is also weakened and dispersed, and does not endure as a living fact."
Note: This is researched info...not my take.
That is a rather inaccurate view of Zen. first of all, zen is not a branch of mahayana - this is a common misconception. There are no worship of Bodhisattvas as this is completely contrary to the teachings of Zen. Zen teachings say we are all sleeping Buddhas and our salvation, for lack of a better word, is in our hands not in the hands of some cosmic force. Zen is more of a form of Taoism.
As for westerner students of Zen being completely uninterested in humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the author of this short "description" of Zen has obviously not spent much time around a common western Zen center where such activities are always the norm.
Do you really consider this your "researched info"? Come on man.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Zen [Re: Vvellum]
#4271860 - 06/08/05 01:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The correct anwser to "What is Zen" would be a swift hit to the head.
Mu.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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I think the simplest answer for understanding zen is thinking of a time you were experiencing zero resistance doing something, when it all flowed effortlessly. That's what being in the zen zone feels like to me.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
#4271891 - 06/08/05 01:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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S far as i know its an act of caring, i take much care in making my fart as lound as possible.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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zen farting would be to do it without resistance or effort. 
The neat thing about zen is how it can be applied to anything.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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See my thought on zen is to take much privelage and care into every thing you do. Not overly concentrating just doing each mov with love and respect.
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ShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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the only sermon the Buddha(shakyamuni)ever gave about zen was this;
he remained silent for 30 minutes,and simply held up a flower twirling it in his hands.
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TrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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How to be a Zen master:
Step 1)
<3
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Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
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