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OfflineRudra
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Zen
    #4269509 - 06/07/05 10:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Zen is a found in water and nor. It is found in taking a poop or farting, even puking. It is found is simpleness and complexity. It is found in everything. No where zen can not be found. I am a zen master. I sit by the waters edge. Showing you illusion is simply disappearing. Illusion is in it self. All zen addicts a like.

#1) When you fart you are only heard.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269521 - 06/07/05 10:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You are a zen master? :wtf:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineRudra
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Re: Zen [Re: Icelander]
    #4269533 - 06/07/05 10:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, as ive consantly drank from the well water where no mud exists. Too the point heroin addicts are zen.


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269538 - 06/07/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Coherency is so totally not zen.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269551 - 06/07/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Oh I get it. You're a zen heroin addict. :syringe:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineRudra
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Re: Zen [Re: Icelander]
    #4269585 - 06/07/05 10:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nope never done heroin.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269601 - 06/07/05 10:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Then how do you know what heroin addicts are? :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269746 - 06/07/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Where it is not found is in pointless rambling about water and being a zen master.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4269803 - 06/07/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBodhibiscuit
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Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4269824 - 06/07/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Reputable zen masters don't normally go around spouting inanities on the message boards of online psychedelic mushroom communities.

Self-proclaimed zen masters on the other hand...

:rolleyes:


--------------------
Everyone longs to leave the eternal flux,
not just to live in harmony, but to return and sit by the charcoal fire.
-from the Fifth Rank, Tung-Shan (806-869)


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
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Re: Zen [Re: Rudra]
    #4269836 - 06/07/05 11:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So tell me, someone. What exactly is Zen? And please bear in mind that I am one the unelightened unwashed....


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OfflineRudra
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Re: Zen [Re: Bodhibiscuit]
    #4269868 - 06/07/05 11:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Inane = illusion

Everything is an illusion.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Zen [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4269977 - 06/08/05 12:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Here is what I found:
"Zen is the Japanese name of a well known branch of Mahayana Butthism, practiced originally in China as Chan, and subsequently in Aldaaran, Japan, and Vietnam. Zen emphasizes the role of meditation (zazen) in pursuing enlightenment. Besides this, it has been called "a complete waste of time, work, and art."
Zen is considered by some as not necessarily a Buddhist religion as a number of non-Buddhists, particularly Christians, have been formally acknowledged as Zen masters. Zen is often described as a way of life not dependent on one's particular culture.
Many youths in the Beat generation and among the hippies of the 1960s and 1970s misunderstood the goals and methods of Zen. While the scholar D.T. Suzuki may have brought attention to concepts in Zen such as humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the "hip" subculture often focused on states of consciousness in themselves. Japanese Zen master Zenkei Shibayama commented: "It may be true that the effect which such scientifically prepared drugs as LSD produce may have some superficial resemblance to some aspects of Zen experience.... When the effect of the drug is gone, the psychological experience one may have had is also weakened and dispersed, and does not endure as a living fact."
Note: This is researched info...not my take.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4270015 - 06/08/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm curious, did zenkei ever try any of these drugs he commented on?

Does anyone know?      Psychedelics are a shock to the personality structure, or ego IMO. That shock can open some doors to the infinite. Still you have to use your will to walk through those doors. Psychedelics alone can't do that for you, not on a permanent basis. I know lots of folks who meditate, some for many years. Some have a lot of trouble in day to day reality. So.... :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Zen [Re: Icelander]
    #4270040 - 06/08/05 12:48 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have to agree with the guy on that point. For most people the entheogenic experience leaves no lasting footprint. Acid might make one see the need for change, but only motivated action combined with follow-through will acomplish this. In the end most people see their vision of their potential self while on acid as an illusion that cannot be realized because it is based in fantasy. An entheogenic experience (after a very long abstinence from such things) brought me back to my roots and motivated me to kick a 5 case (beer) a week alcohol addiction. The entheogen did not do the work, but provided the motivation.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4270057 - 06/08/05 12:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It must be said that one's image of self is but a reflection one sees. LSD is but a mirror, as are other people's opinions or your own opinions. All reflections are illusions, BUT by tailoring the illusion we subscribe to, one can alter the objkective reality of the self. When an illusion of self has lost it's practicality it must be discarded to be replaced by a more relevant illusion (dream?) of self. While the self does have an objective reality, it does not have a subjective reality, so any reflection you percieve is based on the mirror you use.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4270058 - 06/08/05 12:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes!  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zen [Re: Icelander]
    #4270063 - 06/08/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes again! :smile: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,266
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Zen [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4270217 - 06/08/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Here is what I found:
"Zen is the Japanese name of a well known branch of Mahayana Butthism, practiced originally in China as Chan, and subsequently in Aldaaran, Japan, and Vietnam. Zen emphasizes the role of meditation (zazen) in pursuing enlightenment. Besides this, it has been called "a complete waste of time, work, and art."
Zen is considered by some as not necessarily a Buddhist religion as a number of non-Buddhists, particularly Christians, have been formally acknowledged as Zen masters. Zen is often described as a way of life not dependent on one's particular culture.
Many youths in the Beat generation and among the hippies of the 1960s and 1970s misunderstood the goals and methods of Zen. While the scholar D.T. Suzuki may have brought attention to concepts in Zen such as humility, labor, service, prayer, gratitude, and meditation, the "hip" subculture often focused on states of consciousness in themselves. Japanese Zen master Zenkei Shibayama commented: "It may be true that the effect which such scientifically prepared drugs as LSD produce may have some superficial resemblance to some aspects of Zen experience.... When the effect of the drug is gone, the psychological experience one may have had is also weakened and dispersed, and does not endure as a living fact."
Note: This is researched info...not my take.





Ah..that clears things up a little bit. Thank you. I do try to practice humility, labor, service, gratitude, and a bit of meditation in my daily life, and I think these are important qualities, not that I'm saying I'm some sort of Zen Master or anything....


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Offlineilithmar
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Re: Zen [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4270494 - 06/08/05 03:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

For understanding Zen (or Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, or the subject of reality itself), I HIGHLY recommend reading/listening to some Alan Watts. He explains it very clearly, www.deoxy.org has a good section on him (the site may be down at the moment, but google him or find some of his stuff on a file-sharing program).

Rudra, perhaps i could be your disciple? Please explain how everything is an illusion, i am thirsty for enlightenment.


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