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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Let us all secede
    #4267821 - 06/07/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

All the heads, friends of liberty, and all others should all pick up and move to the PNW. Its a beautiful place and I figure there is already a good concentration of good people out there. That is good, liberty loving people.

After uniting the populace in the PNW, secede, peacefully of course. Simply instruct all federal officials that the federal government has no more authority, that they are to resign their position or return to American territory. If there are those that refuse to leave, simply lay siege to their encampment, they don't have food forever.

Washington, Oregon, Idaho, N. Cali could all become their own country, or annex themselves into B.C., Canada.

Do you think the federal government would declare civil war on a state or states that attempted to declare independence? Would they declare on another sovereign nation that annexed a state? Let's be honest here, if the U.S Military wanted to quash a seccession, they could, ruthlessly. But thats not to say that what is left of the state would become an insurrectionist paradise like Iraq. If the motives of the secessionists are just, how would the world react to the conflict?


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4267949 - 06/07/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Do you think the federal government would declare civil war on a state or states that attempted to declare independence?



Haha. I hope you don't think Lincoln fought the Civil War (or War Between the States, or, more to my liking, War of Northern Aggression) to free Slaves. Any real attempt at secession would be quelled totally and absolutely.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisibleroby000
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4267970 - 06/07/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

key west tried to become independant and so did alaska. alaska tried to become its own country with the sponsorship of iraq at the un

id move if the were sucsessful


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: roby000]
    #4267987 - 06/07/05 03:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You and anyone else would be murdered. Save up and move.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4268023 - 06/07/05 03:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I am tempted to agree with your assertion that the federal government would quash a secession. But your support, that Lincoln previously quashed a rebellion falls short because Lincoln is no longer in office. This is not about how a previous administration responded to a secession. This is about how modern day America would respond.

You know, Conservatives joke every day about kicking California out of the union. Do you think that Conservatives would fight to keep California in the Union, against their will.


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Invisibleroby000
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4268144 - 06/07/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yes california has a huge economy with fruit natural resources and other things that make our country filthy rich. thats why theyd fight to keep it.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4268690 - 06/07/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But your support, that Lincoln previously quashed a rebellion falls short because Lincoln is no longer in office. This is not about how a previous administration responded to a secession. This is about how modern day America would respond.



The precedent was set with Lincoln, the precedent of national dominance, of federal superiority. The actions of Lincoln during the Civil War, like nothing else before or after, deemed the 10th Amendment to the Constitution null and void. While the phrasing was officially changed during the transition to the Constitution from the Articles, the War of Northern Aggression caused a de facto change from THESE United States (implication: a band of states voluntarily united for common purposes) to THE United States (implication: a federal monolith composed of formerly independent states now involuntarily woven together). Modern day America would, if anything, be more docile and submissive to the federal government, accepting whatever fallacious premises it decided to throw to the masses in order to justify aggression against a seceeding state. The War in Iraq is a prime example of how intertwined the interests of the state and the media are now; there aren't too many positions I can think of that a majority of people couldn't be nudged into with enough prodding.

Quote:


You know, Conservatives joke every day about kicking California out of the union. Do you think that Conservatives would fight to keep California in the Union, against their will.



California on it's own is easily one of the twenty-five largest economies in the world. You're out of your mind if you think Washington would let that slip, regardless of what they peddle on talk radio. The Civil War was about Economics and Domination, but mostly the former.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineWhiteRabbitt
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4268934 - 06/07/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

stay the fuck out of oregon and washington you god damn hippies


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #4269099 - 06/07/05 08:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Fuck all of that, New York City should secede, first from the state and then from the country


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #4269344 - 06/07/05 09:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Withdrawn



Edited by YidakiMan (06/07/05 10:32 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4269358 - 06/07/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

How about everyone just chills out and focuses on the topic...don't make me lock the thread because some of you can't make an intelligent argument or statement.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4269372 - 06/07/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

When good threads go bad...

Sigh...

I think the Hippie comment was an obvious joke... and even if it wasn't, calling EVERYBODY in Oregon and Washington "Fucking hippies" is actually permitted in here. Heh, besides... it may be true.

Calling the guy who said it a, "Loser" is not allowed.

Please review the Forum Rules about flaming, calling a member "Stupid" or "Idiot" is considered a flame in here... so I suppose "Loser" fits into the same category.

Please, from now on, make comments about the post, and not the poster.

That's your warning.

I hope you now understand why one thing is allowed, and the other isn't.

I respect your desire to keep this thread in line... I just don't want to see you get banned in the process.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Rose]
    #4269492 - 06/07/05 10:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

perhaps I should have seen his signature image.... South Park of course....


But I still think name calling = a flame, no matter how it's spelt or said.
I walk to class and people shout out their dorm window, "GO HOME YOU FUCKING HIPPIE". I do not see any difference between that and, "Stay home you fucking hippie".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming


As far as addressing the post.... there is no substance to address. I withdraw my "looser" comment, but I will call him a troll or flamer all I want. And you are free to agree with me and enforce the rules as they are written or ignore my mod notifications.


Edited by YidakiMan (06/07/05 10:32 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4270825 - 06/08/05 08:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The notification was not ignored...

If you wish to peruse the rules, perhaps you will understand my interpretation of them, better.


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Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineDoom
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4270952 - 06/08/05 10:13 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
perhaps I should have seen his signature image.... South Park of course....


But I still think name calling = a flame, no matter how it's spelt or said.
I walk to class and people shout out their dorm window, "GO HOME YOU FUCKING HIPPIE". I do not see any difference between that and, "Stay home you fucking hippie".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming


As far as addressing the post.... there is no substance to address. I withdraw my "looser" comment, but I will call him a troll or flamer all I want. And you are free to agree with me and enforce the rules as they are written or ignore my mod notifications.




you look like a grade a jerk off right about now, better just stop posting and lay low for a while until this whole thing blows over.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Doom]
    #4271145 - 06/08/05 12:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Didn't you learn anything from Cervantes?

Jerk-off is clearly equivelant with idiot, moron, looser whatever.

I read the rules and the rules basically say no flaming. Wikipedia says insults are flames. That is why I posted the link. As far as I am concerned, end of fucking story. He flamed, and I flamed. ANd the rules are being selectively applied to me alone.

I go to a small college, in a rural bluecollar town in the midwest and people shout out their dorm window as I walk by, "GO HOME YOU FUCKING HIPPIE", maybe I am a little sensitive when some self-righteous member decides to tell me that I should just fucking stay home. Those rednecks on campus have their freedom of speech behind them, there is no such freedom here.

Did you notice how I didn't call WhiteRabbit a fucking redneck? That would be an insult. Equally so as calling someone a fucking hippie.

Now my next post will be in response to Ancalagon. If someone wants to debate with me what name-calling deserves to be called flaming, I'll gladly start a new thread.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4271612 - 06/08/05 02:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:bitch:

Someone lock this thread. It's beyond help.


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Redstorm]
    #4271831 - 06/08/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This thread doesn't do wonders for drug users, either. "LOOK AT THOSE DRUG ABUSERS. SUGGESTING A SECESSION. DRUGS MAKE YOU CRAZY!"


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4272164 - 06/08/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
the War of Northern Aggression caused a de facto change from THESE United States (implication: a band of states voluntarily united for common purposes) to THE United States (implication: a federal monolith composed of formerly independent states now involuntarily woven together).




Never thought of it like that, but I think you're spot on. "you are either with us or against us" is more support that we are THE United States as you say.

Quote:


Modern day America would, if anything, be more docile and submissive to the federal government,





I certainly agree, that Americans would be pretty pissed off that someone didn't want the American dream anymore. Of course that is representative of the times, no one has a reason to "good" reason secede right now and national pride is high.


Can you see any potential reasons for secession that are approaching the horizon? I can't see it ever happening. I don't think I could ever want it to happen. It would be impossible for a secession to be non-violent. Short of a gigantic Constitution issue (such as abortion) or a permenant state of Martial Law, I can't see any national conflict such as this.

But hypothetically, how far do you think this country could wage a civil war before it gave sovereignty to its prodigal son? California, LA, would be absolutely horrid. A ground invasion of LA would never ever ever work. They would have to carpet bomb the entire city to put down anything.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Let us all secede [Re: bukkake]
    #4272195 - 06/08/05 04:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
This thread doesn't do wonders for drug users, either. "LOOK AT THOSE DRUG ABUSERS. SUGGESTING A SECESSION. DRUGS MAKE YOU CRAZY!"




You're probably right, that many if they read the thread would come to illogical conclusions. Some people don't understand the difference between words and action, as well as between hypothetical situations and reality. They will always exist, I just ignore them. They get ignored and then they get forgotten. The same thing has been said over and over again throughout history, "LOOK OUT LOOK OUT< THEY HAVE CRAZY NEW IDEAS" Ideas and words never hurt anyone. Except those extremely sensitive to soundwaves.


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