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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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Where UFO believers and skeptics agree
    #4264816 - 06/06/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

According to most assessments, believers have concluded that about 95% of UFO sightings are due to misidentification or hoax.

Skeptics agree that AT LEAST 95% are in error and merely go one step further and simply state that if 19 out of 20 observers are definitely in error; then it is no big leap to conclude that 20 out of 20 are in error.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264833 - 06/06/05 08:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

a


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:53 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264837 - 06/06/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This amuses me..

"misidentification" of an "UFO - An unidentified flying object."

must be the languages? :P ( hirr - hirr )

:sun:


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264838 - 06/06/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

a jump is a jump, it doesn't matter if it is 99 999 to 100 000 or 1 to 2


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264841 - 06/06/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

or not. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Gomp]
    #4264855 - 06/06/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This amuses me..

"misidentification" of an "UFO - An unidentified flying object."

must be the languages?


Yes it is amusing. The term has taken on new meaning over the decades because of believers comingling UFO with non-human aircraft (or spaceship).


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4264873 - 06/06/05 08:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

a


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:52 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264880 - 06/06/05 08:35 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It is those who claim to have been abducted that have steered the public opinion regarding UFO's toward alien ships


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4264895 - 06/06/05 08:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Do you believe that it's possible for other forms of intelligent life to exist off in very very distant glaxay somewhere in this infinite universe?




Swami?




You have to ask him three times, as per the unwritten rules of debate in S&P. If he skips the third, he concedes the point. :grin: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #4264954 - 06/06/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Please explain what relevance a squid-like creature on the swamps of Darden IV some million parsecs away that can add 1+1 has to do with human's ability to self-deceive.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Icelander]
    #4264968 - 06/06/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry, I took a bathroom break.  :rolleyes:

*Swami calls Cox Cable for another hook-up in the throne room*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264971 - 06/06/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

this is what I'm talking about, you have already decided that its all about self-deception


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264983 - 06/06/05 08:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Sorry, I took a bathroom break.  :rolleyes:

*Swami calls Cox Cable for another hook-up in the throne room*




Now that's a place where you can really pontificate from.  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4264994 - 06/06/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The way you posted it Swami, you are taking a leap of faith that is no better than the leap of faith any pseudoscientific person would use.

Use logic and rationality, not leaps of faith. You can't just assume because 95% of people are misguided that 100% are, because either way there's no evidence for that 5%. It's much easier to argue against alien visits with simple logic and rationality than assumptions and faith.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Ravus]
    #4265003 - 06/06/05 08:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

yea it's induction, and while induction is an accepted method of logic in the science/discipline of logic, if find it to be nothing more than a logical error. Deduction and silogisms are real logic with no room for error


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4265039 - 06/06/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I think you and Ravus both have it backwards. The 95% of cases are the ones ABLE to be explained by such things as a satellite, helicopter, weather balloon bolide (large meteor), etc.

The UFO believers ASSUME that because 5% of the time an investigator wasn't able to pinpoint the human or natural cause, this gap MUST mean a spaceship.

Who here is making the jump? Show even ONE link from a mysterious light to another star system. There is none; even among proponents.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleroby000
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4265040 - 06/06/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

ufos exist the b-1 and the usaf base at groom lake are proof of this. aliens eh who knows only seti will tell...

of course this wasnt really the topic of debate was it?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4265104 - 06/06/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

These 5% cases are so extraordinary that they capture the imagination of millions.

Here is an example of what I mean:

Here in Croatia there is a fameous case from 1997 where a lot of the population of an island including police patrols have seen a rather strange event, and the talk of the police patrol was recorded too and later used in documentaries about UFO's

There was a large orange glowing ball (not a distant spot) drifting slowly above watter between two islands, the whole event lasted for maybe half hour until the ball went away into the horizond and dissapeared as if it crashed into the watter.

I can't remember the specifics of what the police patrol assumed about its height above watter and its size, but they reported it was large and that it changed colors

Witnesses uncluded old people that live on islands and the local police patrol that observed the phenomenon from two places and was commenting on it over the radio.

Such a case is one of those 5%. And it is abviously difficult to explain, since it was during the day, was rather large to the naked eye, was moving and was visible to the naked eye from multiple locations and changed color too.
It could be a natural phenomenon of some sort, but it definitivley is not a mistake or a star or a plane or moon or a comet or whatever

I think such 5% percent of really intense sightings are enough to open the issue of UFO.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: Swami]
    #4265109 - 06/06/05 09:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

But if neither you nor the UFO believers know what the last 5% saw, then either way, if you said it most certainly was an alien or most certainly wasn't, you are having faith in cases where no evidence is in either person's favor.

I believe the last 5% didn't see aliens also, but not because 95% were wrong, as scientifically 1 out of 20 is still quite a percentage. The burden of proof lies on them if they claim it's a UFO, but if you then claim it was instead a weather balloon or a hoax, then the burden of proof also lies on you to substantiate your statement. Those who make statements to explain the evidence are the ones who the burden of proof rests on, correct Swamibear? This applies to both those who say it was aliens and those who say it was a hoax.

Which is why, in my opinion, it's easier to argue from a logical point of view rather than making statements about the unknown cases.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Where UFO believers and skeptics agree [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4265130 - 06/06/05 09:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

In your example, where is the extraordinary link between the orange glow and another star system?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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