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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
How far, and then what?
    #4263658 - 06/06/05 03:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This is based on a question that Dr Shulgin asked in P/Tihkal, I forget which. Basically, how far will you let the government trample on your rights until you decide to do something, and what will that something be?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4263811 - 06/06/05 03:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This is a hard question to answer. Aside from the fact that I don't think it is possible to pick a "breaking point", I believe that most would choose to take up arms. This kind of conversation, on this kind of website, doesn't seem too prudent.

That being said, the best action I can think of at the moment would be to make friends with, or become, sergeants and higher-ups in the military and plot a coup. Although to be truly effective it would take years of cultivating friendships and rising through the ranks.

In any event, removing a corrupt government will come down to a bloody war that I'm not sure many would be willing to partake in.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: daimyo]
    #4263856 - 06/06/05 03:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Then we can sit back and watch our freedoms disappear.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: daimyo]
    #4264246 - 06/06/05 05:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
Aside from the fact that I don't think it is possible to pick a "breaking point", I believe that most would choose to take up arms.




mmm, i don't know if i speak for a very small minority - but i would never take up arms. the peaceful, just, and sustainable society that i envision, albeit a bit hopefully, society merging into could not be obtained by violence. violence would just re-churn the cycle of power, not get rid of the concept. i guess i've never been in a revolutionary situation, but i think i would rather die as a peaceful political prisoner/protester than pick up a gun...


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Krishna]
    #4264275 - 06/06/05 05:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There would have to be a large coordinated uprising. Single person revolts don't do anymore than label you a psychopath.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Krishna]
    #4264301 - 06/06/05 05:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants.




--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Krishna]
    #4264397 - 06/06/05 06:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, lets look aside from the revolution notion for a movement. If the government troops were coming for their weekly search of your house, as a noted drug dissident, would you then decide to take a few of them out with you? More as personal defense rather than revolutionary action.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlineesin
cheesefondue
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Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 1,275
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Re: How far, and then what? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4264488 - 06/06/05 06:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Personal defense would get you killed one day later.

For a successful revolution you'd need the military on your side. Which for some reason i find hard to happen in the America of today...

You think your assault rifles stand a chance against the military's cluster bombs?
Your government, like any other, would take ALL necessary measures to eliminate any insurgency, whatever its reasons are.
Than they would put the propaganda machine to work and make the insurgents look like extreme-right psychopaths/communists/terrorists, like looner said.

I fear that process described in the text quoted by cb9fl is being bypassed these days. Today's propaganda and persuasion techniques are mighty powerful.

The world is going backwards and most people aren't realizing all they fought for is being taken away from them. They just carry on with their semi-confortable lives. As long as they have the last DVD model and the plasma screen and the SUV in the driveway and 24/7 television to masturbate their neurons and create fear in them (i.e, make them praise the gov. as their allmighty protector) a revolution ain't gonna happen IMHO.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: looner2]
    #4264683 - 06/06/05 07:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
There would have to be a large coordinated uprising. Single person revolts don't do anymore than label you a psychopath.



Sad but true. Unfortunately, my outrage with the direction our government is taking isn't shared by enough people to start a revolution. Until then, I may just buy some firearms before they're all outlawed and hope others follow suit.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: looner2]
    #4265058 - 06/06/05 09:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
There would have to be a large coordinated uprising. Single person revolts don't do anymore than label you a psychopath.




That's true. But I don't think the time is yet ripe for that. If those advocating personal freedoms threw a coordinated, violent uprising at the wrong time, they could harm the movement severely, even postpone any change for decades.

And I'm not even necessarily sure it will be required. Polls show that, over the decades, people are becoming more and more in support of marijuana. Perhaps all we need is time for the legalization of drugs, and violence may even lengthen that time by associating legalization with destruction and bloodshed.

If the time ever does come where violence will help though, I'll be the first to join the movement.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 13 days
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4265156 - 06/06/05 09:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Although I would support a violent revolution as a last resort, I think the easiest and quickest way for a non-violent revolution would be fairly simple, but it would take a vast majority of the population to make it work. Everyone just stop paying your taxes...not one penny goes to the government, and everyone works on the barter system. (Obviously this sounds alot easier than it is...)


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Rono]
    #4266218 - 06/07/05 01:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

People will not come together until it's on their fucking doorstep and when it's on their doorstep, people will act stupid when they come in groups. This then creates violence. So all we have to wait is for the government to really fuck shit and piss off the majority of the people and then we can start the slaughter, again.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4266227 - 06/07/05 01:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Unfortunately, my outrage with the direction our government is taking isn't shared by enough people to start a revolution.  Until then, I may just buy some firearms before they're all outlawed and hope others follow suit.





Trust me my friend, there are many who feel this outrage too, and their numbers grow with each passing day.... :mad2:


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Classified
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4266433 - 06/07/05 02:42 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Then we can sit back and watch our freedoms disappear.


Pretty much, yeah. I don't like living in this country, so I will move. This isn't "my" country, this just so happens to be the place my mother decided to shit me out. I feel no obligation to preserve or fight for change here when in other areas of the world I won't be treated like a slave and have milliards of silly personal freedoms raped from me.

Moving is the only option. I think. But that's costly and a long process.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: SoopaX]
    #4268711 - 06/07/05 06:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I would gladly participate in any uprising, violent or nonviolent, that had a realistic chance of reclaiming civil liberties for the people of this country... Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, the chance of success would be minuscule.

I think that the most likely 'breaking point' in the near future would be the possible overturning of Roe v Wade. In a thread from last year, I remember saying that I will never live in a country where the government exercises such control over peoples' bodies. And I definitely still stand by that. So if our prophet of a president gets enough people on the bench, you can count on me to ammo up and get involved. Or move somewhere else. As far as I'm concerned, either is totally acceptable.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: Gijith]
    #4268782 - 06/07/05 06:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
I think that the most likely 'breaking point' in the near future would be the possible overturning of Roe v Wade. In a thread from last year, I remember saying that I will never live in a country where the government exercises such control over peoples' bodies. And I definitely still stand by that. So if our prophet of a president gets enough people on the bench, you can count on me to ammo up and get involved. Or move somewhere else. As far as I'm concerned, either is totally acceptable.




You'll be carrying the bulldykes ammo belt as she's mowing down priests with her SAW. The good thing is women will finally see combat experience!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: bukkake]
    #4268819 - 06/07/05 07:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
Pretty much, yeah. I don't like living in this country, so I will move. This isn't "my" country, this just so happens to be the place my mother decided to shit me out. I feel no obligation to preserve or fight for change here when in other areas of the world I won't be treated like a slave and have milliards of silly personal freedoms raped from me.

Moving is the only option. I think. But that's costly and a long process.




***** Warning: Inflamatory Remarks Ahead *****

You're the kind of person that disgusts me the most. It's not the country that has done you wrong. If anything, it is the current administration. If you don't like it, then GET THE *#@% OUT or fight! If your attitude is flee, then you are not an American, and you are not welcome here in my eyes.
Your disrespect for your birth is enough for me to consider you scum. Sure, your parents may not have planned the accident that has become you, but it has happpened nonetheless. Either love your countrys potential, or move. Don't sit at the computer and say you will get out, JUST GET OUT! You are not wanted. This is America, land of the FREE, and home of the BRAVE!

Name one freedom that has been taken from you(personally) in this country, that you have somewhere else.

Tell me, how are you treated like a slave?


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: daimyo]
    #4268843 - 06/07/05 07:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Name one freedom that has been taken from you(personally) in this country, that you have somewhere else.

The right to buy a hooker.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Classified
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4268880 - 06/07/05 07:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I can't own a brothel.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: How far, and then what? [Re: daimyo]
    #4268881 - 06/07/05 07:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Since when is loving America a requirement for living here?

Since when do you have to "love America's potential" to be a good American? That reeks of nationalistic blindness and wishful thinking to me.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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