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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Fags are normal?
    #4259896 - 06/05/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=644275

Quote:

The long-running scientific debate about whether homosexuality is determined by nature or nurture is dramatically closer to resolution after new scientific evidence was published yesterday.

Biotechnologists have found evidence that sexuality is, after all, determined by genes and not environment. Researchers discovered a single "switch gene" that swaps the sexual orientation of males and females.

In the research, published yesterday, genetically altered male fruit flies spurned females and became attracted to other males. Genetically altered females engaged in complex male mating rituals, vibrating their wings, licking other female flies' genitalia and curling their backs ready for copulation. They rebuffed males that tried to mate with them.

The heated debate about the nature of gay sexual orientation has divided opinion for decades, with many gay men and women saying that they were born homosexual. Anti-homosexual activists say that gay sexual orientation is learnt and can be "cured" with psychological help.

The paper's lead author, Barry Dickson, senior scientist at the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Vienna, said: "We have shown that a single gene in the fruit fly is sufficient to determine all aspects of the flies' sexual orientation and behaviour," he said. "It's very surprising."

Dr Michael Weiss, chairman of biochemistry at Ohio University, was as surprised at the findings. "It seems that none of us chooses our sexuality. It just happens. The results are so clean and compelling, the whole field of the genetic roots of behaviour is moved forward tremendously by this work," he said.

"Hopefully this will take the discussion about sexual preferences out of the realm of morality and put it in the realm of science."




I've always been of the opinion that some people are born gay while others become gay due to their environment.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,929
Loc: the sky
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4259900 - 06/05/05 02:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Did you have to use the word fags?


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Danger Man
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,258
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Re: Fags are normal? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4259907 - 06/05/05 02:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I read that a few days ago. Interesting, isn't it? Of course, one should keep in mind that they did do the experiment with Fruit Flies, so it's a strong possibility that there may be many other factors in play in "creating" human homosexuals....


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Offlinei_rage_against
Mwaa ha ha
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Re: Fags are normal? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #4259910 - 06/05/05 02:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Did you have to use the word fags?




yes that word is so derogetory (spelling??) interesting article though... Did anybody no that the only other animal that shows homosexual tendencies is dolphins, they're also the only other animal that has sex for pleasure.


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whoever told you that is your enemy.


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4259915 - 06/05/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How does natural selection fit in to this? Wouldn't this switch gene get weeded out as unfit to pro-create?


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: DieCommie]
    #4259923 - 06/05/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I always thought of faggotry as a type of evolutionary population control.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4259947 - 06/05/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

haha

But seriously, thats the opposite of natural selection. A species dosent want any population control. It only favors that which will procreate the most. These fruit flies would never have this gene switched in nature for this reason. The scientists had to switch it in a lab, which makes it not natural (normal is of course subjective).

Of course humans arnt fruit flies, and we set new precident as to what is natural. For humans having sex for years and never procreating is natural (at least in western countries it is). Humans have sex for pleasure, not just pro-creation, which is why I think it is hard to make the comparison of us to fruit flies.

In the end nature will select those of us who mate without pro-creation (homo or hetro) for extinction.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: DieCommie]
    #4259963 - 06/05/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I can't believe people that use science to jump to such horrible conclusions. This is not science, this is pseudoscience. Makes me upset in the whole scientific community.

Diseases that are inherited from genes have such a clear A -> B relationship.

Trying to then use genes to explain complex human interactions, which are clearly related to the conscious (for what we are only beginning to understand) is a joke.

Instead of saying, gene A makes you gay, fucking prove it. Genes code polypeptides, not human thought patterns. This whole lets explain away our humanness through genes is getting ridiculous. Emergent properties and their interactions on the organisms whole are not even being thought out.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,929
Loc: the sky
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: looner2]
    #4259967 - 06/05/05 03:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I usually disagree with a lot of your posts, but :thumbup: on that one there buddy.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: looner2]
    #4259973 - 06/05/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That head researcher is probably laughing his ass off that people are buying this shit, while dutifully signing away the new grant from some ultra gay organization to continue his breakthrough research. VOMIT.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



Edited by looner2 (06/05/05 03:21 PM)


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: looner2]
    #4259993 - 06/05/05 03:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

So looner2 are you saying you don't believe anyone is born gay or simply that this research doesn't unequivocally prove it?


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleBi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 3,002
Loc: Yorkshire Moors, Great Br...
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: cb9fl]
    #4259996 - 06/05/05 03:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It always makes me laugh when you guys use the word 'fag' because it means cigarettes over here.

This guy I knew went touring around the States and stopped off at some bar in the sticks and asked the bar tender if he knew where he could pick up some fags. He got beat to within an inch of his life lol  :grin:

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--------------------
PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #4260006 - 06/05/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bi0TeK said:This guy I knew went touring around the States and stopped off at some bar in the sticks and asked the bar tender if he knew where he could pick up some fags. He got beat to within an inch of his life lol  :grin:[/image]


I hope that didnt really happen


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Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #4260011 - 06/05/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:lol: Thats priceless, But its not true, is it? :lol:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Offlinei_rage_against
Mwaa ha ha
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 798
Loc: a shithole in the northwe...
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: egghead1]
    #4260033 - 06/05/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It very well could be true if he was in idaho/wyoming/montana... down south too... man this country is fucked!


--------------------
whoever told you that is your enemy.


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InvisibleBi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 3,002
Loc: Yorkshire Moors, Great Br...
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #4260100 - 06/05/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, its supposedly true. He came back with a busted nose anyway :crazy:

--------------------



--------------------
PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: i_rage_against]
    #4260110 - 06/05/05 04:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You people who think homosexuality cannot be evolutionary are [no flaming in the pub]. There is more then one way to contribute to a genetic line. One is to pass it onto your children. Another is to make it so your family members pass theirs on. Perhaps there are situations where passing your genes on directly is harmful while helping others pass theirs on is better for the whole line. In such cases, a genetic line where some people are born unconcerned with passing it on through reproduction would survive more then one where everyone was so concerned. If gay people serve some purpose, like having a different perspective on society and being able to guide it, being more caring, etc, genetic lines with gay people in them will be more prone to survive then lacking genetic lines.

Look at ants. There are lots of ants that don't reproduce. They still survive. Why? Because their genetic line doesn't just need people to reproduce it, and they can serve their line better with working or defending the queen rather then direct lets have more of the species fucking. Gay people can contribute to their genetic lines by serving certain roles that a super aggressive sex drive targeted towards reproduction won't let most people function with.

Look. There are gender-deviant males in every culture. They manifest themselves differently in different cultures. In some african cultures, they are shamens. In Ireland, they are roman catholic priests. In some micronesian cultures, gender variant men have roles in raising children and dance rituals. In Texas, they work for focus on the family. What this tells us is that gender-varient males are common to all human cultures. The particular way in which that gender variance expresses itself is a cultural artifact, but the gender variance itself isn't, because it comes up some way in all cultures.

Having a certain set of genes doesn't make you gay. It makes you gender variant. How this manifests itself is then a result of culture and early experience. It is pretty simple. Looner is arguing against a straw man. The author of the study does not think it is so simple that a gay gene makes you want to rent leather movies and put up madonna posters. Rather, the author thinks that the gay gene puts you in a certain situation which will manifest itself differently depending on the cultural context. You aren't born gay, insofar as gay is what you see on gay porn or queer eye. You are born with certain differences in the brain, including the way smell is processed, which can be one single gene, that then, depending on the culture and experience, combine to make a person gay.

Nothing is so pathetic as to watch narrow minded people try and grapple with science they do not understand that conflicts with their narrow minded world view. Except maybe watching narrow minded people try and grapple with science they do understand that conflicts with their narrow minded world view by putting their head up their ass about some part of it.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: tomk]
    #4260151 - 06/05/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Nothing is so pathetic as to watch narrow minded people try and grapple with science they do not understand that conflicts with their narrow minded world view. Except maybe watching narrow minded people try and grapple with science they do understand that conflicts with their narrow minded world view by putting their head up their ass about some part of it.




Good stuff there!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineHerbanShaman
I am the Walrus

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 233
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: looner2]
    #4260198 - 06/05/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, some of you really don't understand genetics,ecology,or reprocuctive theory. I think it has always been quite plainly evidenced that some people are genetically prone to homosexuality. The fruit flies experiment does seem to give creedance to this observation. Now if they can isolate this same gene (it is QUITE likely that this same gene is responsible for the same action in humans). That is not to say that anyone who has the gene would be gay, there are countless inhibition methods. Sexual preference is generally beleived to be controlled by only a few loci with even fewer a few of those being polymorphic. If genetic studies were undertaken I think they could find the "gay gene" in less than a year us RestrictionFragmentLengthPolymorphisms, or some similar method.
However, there is is still the debate about social conditioning for sexual preference. I'm not a big believer in this. Its quite clear that when our sexual preference genes get activated that we don't need any conditioning to stare awkwardly at breasts, or a nice ass. Wbat I think may be a greater influence is how our preference interacts with our other genes, and investigating linkages. Here is a link that goes through the ultra basic things. <http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhjow/bmsi/bmsi_4.html>
Ok, so now that that's said I'll get to my point (I think I had one). If you've ever seen the movie GATTACA you can imagine the worst case scenarios for individual gene mapping. Would I want to know whether I carried a "gay gene" despite not expressing it, for the sake of having children? Not really, I would love my kid no matter what. Some fanatical christians might though, who knows. Should a person be allowed to abort the fetus if a chorion villi sample or some other test suggests they might grow up to be gay? Don't ask the president that question lol.


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"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
-- Mazatec shaman


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Fags are normal? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #4260281 - 06/05/05 05:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Should a person be allowed to abort the fetus if a chorion villi sample or some other test suggests they might grow up to be gay?

I believe a person should be able to abort a fetus no matter what the reason. Even for the simple reason of, "I don't want a baby."


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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