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OfflineHavoc
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Registered: 03/30/01
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Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
How will it all end?
    #425851 - 10/14/01 11:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Humanity is faced with the biggest responsibility in this world. It's either take care of this planet or destroy it. I find myself wondering which one will it be? Each one of us possesses a human brain with a mind of infinite possibilities. No other creature on this planet is capable of what we are capable of. But, our capabilities go both ways, both creation and destruction. Humanity needs to responsible for this gift that has been given to us. If humans can create such complex things and develope all this technology using only 10% of our brain I can't even begin to imagine what the other 90% holds for us. Either we take responsibility for this great gift that has been given to us and elevate our minds or this planet and everything in it is doomed. The possibilities are endless. Spread wisdom not ignorance and elevate your mind. The rest has yet to be written, we will shape our own future. Will we have paradise or will we continue to destroy ourselves and the planet?

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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #426466 - 10/15/01 03:43 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

we will have paradise... if we want to... if you take a good look around, you?ll see that day by day more and more people are awaking... stopping their sleepwalk and becoming conscious creators...


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Invisibletak
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: In(di)go]
    #426654 - 10/15/01 07:39 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

humanity iwll go on, we live in paradise right now, we can change it, remmber there is no good without bad, and as uch good as you get, you get equal bad. we live in a world where shit happens, and good shit happens, we will awaken, and make good for he bad posibly, but nothing too bad is to come. We are here for a while


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Anonymous

Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #426705 - 10/15/01 08:43 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

We have destroyed the planet enough. It's either take care of this planet and love it, or it will destroy us. We will not destroy the planet, it will not allow it.
We must become one with everyone else and the planet, and use our knowledge for the benefit of everything.
Man with Nature
not
Man Vs. Nature

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #428408 - 10/17/01 12:34 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

You may be interested to know that yesterday Stephen Hawking said that the human will race will NOT survive unless we spread out into space, the reason being that sooner or later someone is bound to develop some biological weapon that will kill everyone on earth.

The human race is naturally destructive, and I really can't see that we have any future but extinction. And to be honest I couldn't give a shit if we all died tomorrow, the world would be far better off without us.


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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
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Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 38
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #428526 - 10/17/01 03:08 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

(to revelation)

Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will cuz I sure could use a vacation from this Silly shit, stupid shit... One great big festering neon distraction, I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim. Mom's gonna fix it all soon. Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be.

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #428571 - 10/17/01 03:50 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

That is absolutely, precisely how I feel (god bless tool :)). I'm sick of acting out this same old bullshit, day after day. Sick of being a pawn. Now i'm just gonna wait.


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Edited by Revelation (10/17/01 03:54 PM)

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #428630 - 10/17/01 04:31 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

that is bullshit. Or you interpreted wrong. Anyway, wherever we go, our self destructivness will follow us. There is no point of running away from ourselves.
Or I missinterpreted, or this is (look above)

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Crobih]
    #428651 - 10/17/01 04:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Okay lets see, you give to possibilities
a) It is bullshit
b) I interpreted wrong

Well, it's not a, and it's not b. In fact it is exactly how I said it, okay?


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Offlinegribochek
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #428742 - 10/17/01 06:14 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

So it's like this -- you do bullshit until something comes about that will make doing bullshit unnecessary. A hundred dollar question is -- why in the world can't we stop doing bullshit _NOW_?

And just for the sake of argument I will stop typing this in midsentence. I will even


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Anonymous

Re: How will it all end? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #428877 - 10/17/01 08:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

>>Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon.

No comets will fall from the sky...merely a passing planet making it's routine pass around our sun which will just so happen to pass right by Earth and shift the poles
.....followed by meteor showers, tidal waves, earthquakes and volcanoes YIPEEE!!!

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Anonymous

Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #428880 - 10/17/01 08:36 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

>>
You may be interested to know that yesterday Stephen Hawking said that the human will race will NOT survive unless we spread out into space, the reason being that sooner or later someone is bound to develop some biological weapon that will kill everyone on earth.

The human race is naturally destructive, and I really can't see that we have any future but extinction. <<

Unless of course Mother Nature acts first and takes out our destructive tendencies before we have a chance to shit our liquified internal organs while destroying each other.

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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #429140 - 10/18/01 02:55 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

teonanacatl and revelation: i think you interpreted that song wrong... well, just my opinion... after all it?s art, and art has a different meaning for everyone... but i don?t think maynard was actually praying for THE END... remember later on he sais "try and read between the lines"... and about "Mom's gonna fix it all soon. Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be." that does in no way mean she (mother nature) is gonna wipe us out... she?s gonna change things, yes (GOD YES) but we will live on... and so will earth


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #429153 - 10/18/01 03:57 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry I was high and in agressive mood. So I will be polite today.
What I wanted to say is: If we do some shit on the earth and then decied to move to another planet, due to our selfdestructioness we will definitelly fuck up another planet too. What you said is escapicism (sp?), not the answer.
Do you got it now?

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Crobih]
    #429278 - 10/18/01 10:40 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

"yellow wants the country
red wants the country back
black wants out of the street
white wants out of this world
sing
sing
sing to the sun"
(paul kantner/jefferson starship)
~~~
~~~
space IS the place
our origins are from the stars
our destiny lies in the stars
with energy and mass, we can open up the solar system, & perhaps beyond...
plenty elbow room, all sorts of possibilities, more than enough natural resources...
and if we can tap into the nearby material & energy, we can stop digging up the planet for metals & fuels...
with currently available technology, we could be mining the asteroids within a couple decades (& showing a profit...)
up & out:
leo --- laser driven steam boosters, mass drivers, etc...
geosynch --- ride the beanstalk...
l5, luna & beyond --- beanstalk tether past geosynch or boost from leo...
i wanna go cruisin' ok?


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Offlinewacamaster
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Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 85
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #429860 - 10/18/01 09:47 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Trashin the planet ain't nutin. People (animals) say trash... ooooh BAD! It's bad to us because we will die from it, but to the universe as a whole, trash is no different then us. We exist, it exists. Radioactive waste gets created... I'd say thats a good thing, the universe now has a new form of existence. Life's short.. everyone dies, expand the universe.. TRASH THE PLACE!

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OfflineHavoc
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Registered: 03/30/01
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Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
Re: How will it all end? [Re: wacamaster]
    #429916 - 10/18/01 10:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

The person who wrote this above me is ignorant. Please disreguard what small minds say.

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OfflineHavoc
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #429923 - 10/18/01 10:28 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

The human race and everything else including this planet is here for a purpose or there would be nothing at all.

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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #430013 - 10/19/01 12:12 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Lozt Soul, I understand the song, I was just replying to revelation's position.

We both know that Maynard is really sarcastic, and on aenima he's talking about all the bullshit that's going on and that a change will be positive.

Obviously, he doesn?t want the world to end but the human race to trascend as the lyrics to parabola and lateralus suggest.

keep going

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #430287 - 10/19/01 07:20 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #430410 - 10/19/01 11:06 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

and fenris wolf will ravage among the hearths of men...
and many will fall, and many will turn away from the ways of their ancestors...
and the worm at the root of worldtree yggdrasil will finally gnaw through...
and the deceit of loki the trickster will allow the frost giants and their allies to tumble the aesir from their halls of feasting, and the last battle will be joined indeed...
and we mortals can add our might to that of odin skyfather, thor thunderwielder, frigga the heartmother, and all those of asgard who on that day will wage the last great battle...
and it shall be called ragnarok, the twilight of the gods...
and the world will end in cold...
and those who die in battle will have a place at the feasting-table, and their songs sung by skalds...
and after time enough has passed...
green will come again...
and the worlds will begin again...
and the great cycles of life and death will again be lived out by gods and men...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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OfflineBrugman
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #431052 - 10/19/01 11:41 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Can you explain this please? If something is here, why must it have a purpose? Well, one that matters anyways...
Maybe our purpose is to just die out? Who knows?

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Brugman]
    #431081 - 10/20/01 12:15 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Mankind couldn't dent this rock. It's that very arrogance that leads to the potential to wipe ourselves out. when we are gone, Earth will continue to exist as Earth + plastic.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #431113 - 10/20/01 01:35 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #431362 - 10/20/01 11:32 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Havoc,

I hate it when people claim that differing opinions are ignorant. Our extinction is irrelvant to the universe. If we get wiped out, we'll be about as missed as the dinosaurs in the long run, and life will continue without the big, bad evil man.

And as for the rest of you, looking to go to outer space, we can't even agree on what the problems are on this planet. How is space travel going to positively effect human nature?


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #431663 - 10/20/01 05:44 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

space travel will supply us with a "frontier"


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Offlinemissulena
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: gnrm23]
    #431855 - 10/20/01 10:16 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Weve got more gadgets now but we still have control over hardly anything including each other there will always be people who disagree with each other, if there is more than one person on this planet theres potential for war

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: missulena]
    #432324 - 10/21/01 01:14 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #432352 - 10/21/01 01:41 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Life is so beautiful and powerfull. It's not just some piece of space shit. We are trashing the planet, and thats not irrevelent. All other creatures live in harmonious existance and have done so for billions of years. Then humans come along and start combing the earth re routing waters killing off animals and polluting the earth. We are a unique animals, were problem solvers. I dont think people have really thought much about the planets problems untill this century and now that people and technology are so much more advanced the shift will be towards less pollution. It's not as though we've started some chain reaction that will definately lead to the distruction of earth, the damage can be reversed and it will be... as for space travel; the sun is going to begin expanding soon(in cosmic turms) and the earth will be inhabitable. I we survive were going into hyperspace


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_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

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Invisiblevermiculite
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #433001 - 10/22/01 03:18 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I believe a huge asteroid will stike earth and destroy it. As for this hypothesis:

"Stephen Hawking said that the human will race will NOT survive unless we spread out into space, the reason being that sooner or later someone is bound to develop some biological weapon that will kill everyone on earth"

It is wrong. If someone does develop a bio weapon, I am sure there will be a curing antedote or vaccine. this antedote might be very rare and so only a select few will have access to it. And even during the plague in which 2/3 of the WORLD population was wiped out. 1/3 did survive. by living on land so rural that the disease could not be spread; or having a natural immunity to the virus/disease.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: gnrm23]
    #434440 - 10/23/01 05:55 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

"...and in the startling end...blue whiteness makes me calm...
I dream in the eye of the wind..."
-Fugs


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: vermiculite]
    #434458 - 10/23/01 06:13 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

True, that's a possibility.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #435114 - 10/24/01 08:05 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #435160 - 10/24/01 09:54 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

ed sanders is editor of a weekly paper in woodstock NY...
(didja notice nobody had much to say about ragnarok? dam' bloody norse myths...)
so for an upclose, personal view of judgement day (et seq.) check out heinlein's funny _job: a comedy of justice_ ...or not...
therefore, be ye always ready, for no man knoweth the day or the hour...
(are you ready, johnny, are you ready?)


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: gnrm23]
    #435539 - 10/24/01 03:57 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Offlinegusb232
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #435593 - 10/24/01 04:33 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I dont think think humans will become extinct, We are a generalized species that is very adaptable to many environments, Think there are even peolpe living on anartica and in space. Save a global catastrophy, we will survive; that is what we are good at. As far as survival we rank right up there with bacteria and fungus.
I think we will evolve especsily if we continue to destroy the planet, But it will not be a darwinian evolultion, that is too slow, humans can now adapt much faster culturaly or whats called mimecticly. Depending on future environmental and cultural factors we could adapt very differently to the point of become almost unrecognisibly as human.
Soon nanotek age will come and we will be able to transform ourselfs and our world, first brain implants to control our computer and car, evoleing into telepathy among many other uses. Some even predict it will be possible to digitize the whole brain, and upload yourself into cyberspace. A scarey though to some, but i doubt we will see too many of these changes in our live time.

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OfflineRaVeN_SKiEs
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #435616 - 10/24/01 04:48 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

im with Revelation. Tool kicks ass, and we r gonna destroy the planet sooner or later, but lost likely sooner. if we dont create some biological weapon that will kill us all, we will end up killing eveyone and everything on the planet either by urban growth and destroying all of our farm land, rain forests, the greenhouse effect, which will flood the entire planet(hence the lyrics "i have a suggestion to keep us all occupied..learn to swim" by Tool) or we will pollute the earth so much that the whole over Antartica will grow, and grow till it kills us all, OR by over population. it is estimated that by the year 2010 the population of the planet will be 14,200,000,000 if the 2-children/family isnt put into effect, which in my opinion, wont be for a while. and i agree with Revelation by saying that the world would be far better with out us, and about not giving a shit if we all died tomorrow. in not saying im suicidal or anything, i just really wouldnt care. so lets just say, the planet is fucked up, a lot, and Revelation, i couldnt agree with u more!


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I am looking through
Through the dance of the trees
I experience
What a shaman sees
I return within
I return with sight
Under raven skies
I will sleep tonight

-The Tea Party

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OfflinePoetFirst
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #435618 - 10/24/01 04:49 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

christ, watered down and drowning
like hell and wrath
moved fluid and cancerous
morphing CHRIST to CRIME
and sinner to saint


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Stay alert. Trust no one. Keep a laser handy.

Life is suffering. The origin of suffering is egoistic craving and attachment. There is a way to the cessation of suffering. This Way is the Eightfold Path:.

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OfflineFelstorm
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: PoetFirst]
    #436160 - 10/25/01 02:58 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

First the governments will turn upon world religion and destroy it.
(supposedly) "Gods" angelic forces will clean off the human governments and start a Theocracy on the planet... All lead by divinely chosen "Princes"... Read the Book of Revelation. The Religions are "The Harlot Babylon the Great". She drinks from a cup "Filled with the blood of the innocent"... Catholocism's Crusades and Inquisitions, to Islams "Holy Wars" to the Church condoned Holocaust in Nazi Germany. The Beast with ten heads and ten crowns is the United Nations. The "Harlot" rides on the back of the "Beast". As you can see how the Christians are spouting "God bless America" all the time and cozying up to the politicians to make a name for themselves. A "Harlot" indeed.

The World Trade Center disaster is all because
Osama thinks he is some Holy Crusader leading his selfless terrorists in a holy campain against the "Infidel" Christians of America. Islamics, Christians and Jews all worship the same God... the same God that is going to have all of them destroyed by the corrupted human government. And then, when the human governments represented by the "Ten-headed beast" get down to a select few people that know God's Holy ineffible Name YHVH and go about persecuting these people.... that is when "destruction will fall upon thier heads with swift wings."... And this is all going to come soon, "As a thief in the night."...


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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.





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Offlineprincessmaumbie1
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Felstorm]
    #436229 - 10/25/01 06:40 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

ya know, i had this crazy idea that maybe it was all a government conspiracy to keep our minds off of the falling econmy, but i guess other countries have anthrax too..so that ruled out that idea. but, when they hit the trade center, i thought bush did it to be more popular,so he could be a hero,i dont know, just a thought..

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Felstorm]
    #436480 - 10/25/01 12:40 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineSherlockDrubu
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: princessmaumbie1]
    #436949 - 10/25/01 08:33 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I have been raised as a Christian, and I see no other power as great as that of God's. I have devoured my friendly fungus, and have seen the end of human life... but the world became so much more beautiful, and without human life existing on it, the souls of whom may choose to stay on this wonderful mother are happy souls, because as a soul, I see no emotion, only pure bliss. The color of my soul is pink, for this is the color that I see when I leave my body.

I have seen the end of the world, and can accept death. To an extent, I still feel the pain of a loss, but I can understand that the person's soul is now free, so they are MUCH happier than when put in a LIFE where there is pain, sorrow, and the end. As a soul, I see no end.

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: SherlockDrubu]
    #437977 - 10/26/01 07:31 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #438401 - 10/27/01 07:29 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #438554 - 10/27/01 01:48 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

It is a fact that the Catholic church went through the Bible in the 1500s with a group of the 'elites' of the Church and edited, deleted, and added to many parts of the Bible.
Everything that Jesus taught about Reincarnation was taken out of the Bible, since the Church figured if people knew they could solve their own problems where would the Church fit in?
Does it not strike some people as odd as to why they must give 10% of their income to the Church? God does not need money, where does this money go then? Padded pews... an addition to the steeple...and into the pockets of the high ranking members of the Church.

The idea of an eternal Hell was added, along with too many things to list.
Not to mention since then, the Bible has been changed and altered countless times in many different forms.
The Church only wants power over the thoughts of it's people. Is it any wonder the Catholic Church is the wealthiest entity in the WORLD?

From a song cynically imitating the ideals of the Church (specifically Evngalists):

Mind Control
Hey Just what have you become?
With a cash vindication
Do you think that buys salvations end?
Do you see through me?
I'm the plastic face on your screen
Send your money to Jesus Christ
Mail Order your eternal Life
Bend your mind, make you turn around
Don't believe it when they tell you
That even God needs money
God needs money from you

Shame cant even make them learn
They feed off the weak and if there's a hell they're gonna burn
On your screen they worship me
I'm a bastard saint, I'm a sychophant
A parasite that lives for just one goal...
Mind control


Or there is the Metallica version:

Time for lust, Time for lie
Time to Kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
And you'll get a better seat
Bow to Leper Messiah

Marvel at his tricks... Need your Sunday fix
Blind devotion came, Rotting your brain
Chain, Chain, join the endless chain
Taken by his glamour
Fame, Fame, infection is the game
Stinking drunk with power, We see

Witchery, Weakening
See the sheep are gathering
Set the trap, hypnotize
Now you follow

Edited by Shroomism (10/27/01 02:00 PM)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ]
    #438896 - 10/27/01 09:55 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439098 - 10/28/01 03:55 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

They are song writers.
I can relate to the lyrics because I have experienced the same feelings expressed within them. I have read the Bible. I was raised with Christian beliefs (Rather forcibly) and the knowledge and truths that the Bible holds. I was also able to see the many holes in it, a distortion of truth.
But then I disovered that God does not exist as an outside source, it is an internal force. A force that resides inside everything that exists, a Creation within itself.
Jesus taught meditation. The process of going within to find the answers and find God. Somehow this got turned around (By the Church *cough*) into praying to an outside source for help and guidance, when one is totally capable of doing it themselves, as we are all a part of Creation (God as it is sometimes called) The answers lie within.
I'm not saying that everything presented by the Bible is unaccurate, I am merely pointing out the quite major alterations that have occured since it's inception.

Edited by Shroomism (10/28/01 04:00 AM)

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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439110 - 10/28/01 04:26 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

I?d like to gently inform you that you say those remarks out of faith in men instead of faith in God.
By writing the remarks above, you have demonstrated great faith in mere book writers, and mainly book writers of the last half century. Why? Because these same people try to discredit the legitimacy of the Bible.




hmmm... well, by believing in every word in the bible you are demonstrating faith in mere book writers, book writers long died... my question to you is: who told you god stopped talking to us when the bible was finished? god still talks to us, to you, to shroomism, to me, to everyone in this world... especially to the people who wrote that quotes... most people just dont listen... actually what i dislike in most christians is that they believe in a "dead" god... a god you can talk to, but doesn?t answer... and the eyes of many many christians are filled with fear... the bible containst truth, yes... but only part of it... how do i know this? god told me... yes he did... i don?t understand how people trust more in a book than in what they feel flowing from within...
but if that is the way they choose, there they go... i have no problem with it, unless they try and push their beliefs on me telling me im going to the NONEXISTENT eternal hell... remember... my way is no better than yours, its only different... that also applies the other way round...
"god is in you and all around you, not in huge buildings of stone and wood... split a piece of wood and i?ll be there... lift up a stone and you will find me" -jesus christ

to finish id like to quote tool again... this is how relgion mostly operates nowadays...

Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to use you...
like me,
like me.

If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me.
Don't judge or question.
You are broken now,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My God's will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life.
Open my eyes and blind me with your light
and your lies.
-James Maynard Keenan

peace, take care and all the light

ps: oh, and by the way i consider myself a christian, for i believe in jesus christ...


--------------------

Edited by Lozt Soul (10/28/01 04:36 AM)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ]
    #439122 - 10/28/01 05:55 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439205 - 10/28/01 10:33 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

God God God God... Who? Creation! Sounds alot better...


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439442 - 10/28/01 04:04 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

if thats your belief, its ok... i wont argue... and i?ve heard those words before... but anyways, i will go one step further and tell you that god and satan are part of one and the same creation... you can not experience the majesty, light and love of god if you don?t see the other side.. the darkness, and the fear... the ying and yang... in my belief, lucifer is to be respected accepted and even loved for what he did for us... he volunteered to lead the dark side, to show humans the other side, so that they could choose... we could choose...
as for tool, i dont agree with you... and i will post lyrics of 2 songs from lateralus... tell me what you think... even better, tell me what you feel... it would be good if you could listen to the songs as well...

-Lateralus-

Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see there is so much more
and beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind.

Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going...


-Parabola-

We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment,
We are choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside
This holy reality, this holy experience.
Choosing to be here in

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.

Alive, I

In this holy reality, in this holy experience. Choosing to be here in

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.

Twirling round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing.

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.
All this pain is an illusion.


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: In(di)go]
    #439445 - 10/28/01 04:07 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

oh! and i forgot about

-Reflection-

I have come curiously close to the end, down
Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole,
Defeated, I concede and
Move closer
I may find comfort here
I may find peace within the emptiness
How pitiful

It's calling me...

And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping
The moon tells me a secret - my confidant
As full and bright as I am
This light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me

Its source is bright and endless
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her, we are lifeless satellites drifting

And as I pull my head out I am without one doubt
Don't wanna be down here feeding my narcissism.
I must crucify the ego before it's far too late
I pray the light lifts me out
Before I pine away.

So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason ...
before we pine away.


--------------------

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439830 - 10/28/01 09:10 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

>>Shroomism - Actually, I'd like the opportunity to prove you wrong, if I can. First, you have not yet proven or even quoted ONE scripture that cannot be true.

I'll give you ten scriptures that are not true. I'm gonna have to find a Bible however, as mine is probably in a box in the attic.

>>Secondly, I would like to say that God is indeed a person, an external Person too. I do believe God's power sorrounds all things. I also believe God dwells inside those who believe in Him. But I also believe He is external and He is an individual, who has chosen a Name and an identity by which we should refer to Him. That is, the Person and Name of the Lord Himself, Jesus the Christ.


God resides in all things, regardless of whether they believe in him or not. God has told me that it does not like that name. First, it wants to make the point clear that Jesus the Christ is a state of consciousness and not a person or being. Second, the name it wishes to be reffered to is Creation/All that is/The Great Central Sun/Eternity, but certainly not God.
The name God has caused countless wars, and how many people have been killed in the name of 'God'? (*cough* Crusades)

>>I don't know if it is fair for me to say that every word in the Bible was correctly translated and it was taken from a legitimate copy of the original text(s). However, I do stand firm in the belief that a person can trust in the Bible.

Yes it was correctly translated, after it was severely edited to fit the needs of the wealthy elite. The Bible has been twisted around too many times to retain its original shape. The Bible was written a long time ago, for simple minded men, as that was the best way they could understand it. However as LoztSoul stated, Creation did not just stop talking to people after the Bible was created. He talks all the time, in everything. I suggest you get the new Bible. It's called "The Third Millenium: Living in the Posthistoric World" by Ken Carey. This is written by a MAN (just like the Bible) who was writing the words of GOD. The only difference being that this was created in 1991 and therefore could be considered the updated Bible. God talks about how he is disgusted by Christianity, as it has been so far distorted from what it's original intention was.

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ]
    #439850 - 10/28/01 09:28 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #439881 - 10/28/01 10:02 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

What do you mean God has not spoken to me? How are you to determine such a thing? So God is able to talk to Noah, Issac, Peter, and many others according to the Bible but not able to talk to Shroomism? How very odd.
Jesus was a man who incarnated on Earth to spread a message love and of the Earth changes which are occuring right now. He was in fact a being from the 12th density (which is called Christ Consciousness) And he originated from a star named Alcyone in the Pleiades. Perhaps Jesus is Lord, but so is everything else. God is everything.


>>It is so unbalanced for people to throw their Bible in the attic and pickup a book written in the last decade instead and call it the Word of God. I can only smile at that statement because it is not only dangerous in a deadly way, but it is IMHO close to extremely foolish.

I could say the exact same thing about the Bible.

>>The Bible gives us a firm way of distinguishing between a FALSE PROPHET and a TRUE PROPHET: If a prophet prophesies in the name of the Lord and his words come to pass, that prophet is of God. If a prophet's words do not come to pass, or he prophesies outside the identity of the Lord, that prophet is not from God, and he shall not be feared.

I have a problem with this statement. Several actually.

1. Fear? Why should a prophet of God be feared? God is a God of Love and forgiveness, not fear. Fear is the opposite aspect, that of which you would call Satan. I think you have it backwards...a prophet that is not of God will be feared. A prophet that is of God will be loved by some and hated by others. Jesus was crucified for his outrageous teachings.

2. If the Bible teaches that God should be feared than there is your untruth right there. The Universe was not created out of Fear and illogical thinking...no....it was created out of unconditional Love, compassion, understanding, logic, and wisdom. How do I know this? God told me. He created this universe to experience all aspects of his own Creation, and learn from them, so that God may continually evolve. Eventually, we will all be one again in that eternal sea of light and love. I stand firm in the fact that everything is a part of Creation (God) and everything has purpose. If you don't believe me ask God, he'll tell you the same thing.

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ]
    #439973 - 10/28/01 11:16 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Guys, you are both right; and how can any single one of us tell another what is the 'right path' for him or her? We can certainly share our beliefs and see the curious differences in perspective, but I like the analogy of a disciple who is on his way to meet his master at the top of the mountain. There are many paths, some of which look different, but if we keep one eye on where we are today (our present surrroundings, life) and keep the other every so often to get our bearings of where we are ultimately headed (heaven, top of the mountain, the master, what have you), then we are sure to eventually all reach the same goal in mind. It is after all, the same mountain that we are climbing.

Shroomism: I understand where you are coming from and agree with many of your points. Yet does pointing out that a closely held personal faith like that in Jesus Christ as 'savior' is a limited perspective make us any better than those who condemn those who do not believe in Jesus to go to hell? Hallelujah, I just farted

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OfflineElvish
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: _tenshi_]
    #440049 - 10/29/01 12:11 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)


...unconditionally accepting those that would divide...


...an ever widening circle.....

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Elvish]
    #440393 - 10/29/01 07:52 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #440703 - 10/29/01 01:10 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

so, has anybody seen PBS show w/joseph campbell _the power of myth_
and are we aware of the relationships between:
myth
metaphor
legend
lore
fable
history
truth
fact
baldfaced lie
reality
fantasy
fundamentalism
liberalism
transcendentalism
theology
metaphysics
and a buncha other words that may sometimes get confused in some folks' heads...
~~~
oh, and markos (if you happen to read thi, hehheh...) i picked up a copy of bishops spong's book on rescuing the bible from fundamentalism at a book sale yesterday and am looking forward to delving into it soon...
~~~
& i still wonder why nobody cares about the norse version of the end, my friend, the very end... i mean why should ragnarok be any more or less real than armageddon, huh?


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #440807 - 10/29/01 02:50 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

enter: you should read "conversations with god" by neale donald walsh


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: In(di)go]
    #440892 - 10/29/01 04:13 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Edited by enter (11/03/01 02:11 AM)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #440957 - 10/29/01 05:18 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

"bibliolatry"


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: gnrm23]
    #445388 - 11/03/01 02:14 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #445736 - 11/03/01 01:52 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #446078 - 11/03/01 08:24 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I will end with a new begining.


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Reflecting ourselves through Unity to escape the claws of Duality and become the
creator that experiences creation.

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: SpiralMix]
    #446183 - 11/03/01 10:55 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #446937 - 11/04/01 06:14 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice.
From what I know of men's desire, I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice, is also great,
And would suffice.


--------------------
-----------------------
D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: D_Tox]
    #451480 - 11/08/01 08:23 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #451490 - 11/08/01 08:36 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

So why did God bother with any of it, enter?

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InvisibleUlysees
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Pynchon]
    #451680 - 11/08/01 12:52 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds like when the sun will go nova (or whatever the term is). That day is coming, and it can not be stopped. That's a long time away though, and I wonder if man will be here. I guess we've been here long enough, cultures won't resemble todays though. By then we might be able to give God the slip, leave Earth... (Probably long before then unless war or famine or something screws everything up.)


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Pynchon]
    #451737 - 11/08/01 01:41 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Ulysees]
    #452325 - 11/08/01 10:11 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

bookwyrm sez:
short sory "year of the jackpot" (by robert a heinlein)


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #452333 - 11/08/01 10:24 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

OK, I will do that.

The question still stands for now tho'...

Let me put it like this: if I were a parent, I would naturally tell my kids not to play with fire. But If I leave a book of matches out and the house burns down, whose fault do you think it is? Even the most obediant child can't be held responsible for a chain-reaction of events beyond its comprehension. Building a new house won't stop it from happening again.

So why did God bother with us, seeing as for Him our fate must have been something of a foregone conclusion, like watching toddlers play with matches? Does God make mistakes too?

Apologies if I sound overly-critical of your beliefs. I don't mean to.

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Pynchon]
    #452571 - 11/09/01 06:03 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #452611 - 11/09/01 07:24 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

It was certainly an articulate and well thought-out response, enter. But at the risk of straying even further from the original intent of this thread:

"Each of us responsible for his/her own actions"

Simple statement belying great assumption -- where exactly does free will begin and end for the creationist? I've always presumed that most christians believe in an omnipotent deity, and omniscience to me suggests a knowledge of future events as well as past/present. I don't claim to know the mind of God, but if He knows what you're going to do before you do it -- and has always known it, from the very beginning -- free will becomes more illusory than ever and God Himself is relegated to a position of being nothing more than an audience for a play he already knows the ending to. And to milk the analogy 'til it's teats squeak, He apparently intends to wipe out the cast and the set when He decides He doesn't like the way it's going!

I'd also question the assertion that "without some form of law from God, you wouldn't know a righteous person from someone who cares only about themself" but that's another thread in itself...

"It takes many humans to be made to get a handful of individuals that can eternally coexist under God's will."

Again, He must have already known the identities of that handful before He started. Why create billions of lives just to snuff them out when he could have created a "perfect" race to begin with?

God may not be directly responsible for any given event, but nor is the neglectful parent who leaves matches lying around. But if everything in creation is the handiwork of God (including, presumably, Satan), you have to ask yourself wether or not things really turned out the way He wanted them to...it's a bit like the old "can God make a stone so heavy he can't lift it?" paradox, I guess...

Once again, I'm not trying to say "I'm right and you're wrong" or anything like that... just trying to get some thought-provoking discussion going...


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Pynchon]
    #452678 - 11/09/01 09:38 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #452752 - 11/09/01 11:06 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

And you guys say shrooms doesn't fuck with your head... It seems to me everything you read you take for the truth. Or maybe some of you are just completely delusional. I keep an open mind, but when it comes to aliens, ghosts, and god bringing eternal suffering to us. I think you should all take a break from shrooming for a while and get a foot in reality.

If you take the time to research this shit, you will realize its all paranoid bs, as a matter of fact I think your all so out of touch with reality, I could tell you I was god and you will believe me.

So I am god. Yep this is god right here. If you don't believe me I will answer any question to prove that I am god. I can tell you everything... EVERYTHING!!!!!!


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Frodo_Baggins]
    #452769 - 11/09/01 11:19 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #452953 - 11/09/01 01:38 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Until there is total unity, where all links become the chaining, we will always stand divided. There too many ethnocentric systems (links) for one monotheist-based system to transform them all. It would be deluded to believe that the Bible's (OT/NT) veracities could relate in any way to the phenomenons (ie: ghosts, OBE, NDEs) of today. It would be also delusional to believe the Bible is infallible as the Vatican ordained it to be so cuz I could pose you these questions:

Where does a non-Christian go when he or she dies? Because supposedly the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses are classified as outsiders of Christainity, cast outs. What about the Buddhists? Jewish? Hindus? Heck, Atheists?

Does the Bible expresses reincarnations?

Do you know why the 12 gospels excluded from OT/NT?

In reply to:

Paul actually began to address this question and he left his statements rather vague for the sake of not making some people angry IMO. This is an emotional question to say the least, because it leaves an answer that there are indeed condemned people and there are people that God has chosen for eternal life. Check out Romans 9:14-28.




Have you ever conversed the above with a Zen master?

In reply to:

This is not the way He wants things, thus He?s going to destroy the earth and create a new earth.




No, he won't. We have the capability to assure total destruction of earth and humankind..

In reply to:

To use your movie/cast example, I?d look at it like this: God created all things, and He created humans with free will. From day one of our existence He has allowed us to choose good and bad things. He does not like the current process and system and lifestyle that the world has established, thus He will end it and more or less, start over with those whom He has chosen in advance. Secondly, He is molding and shaping these ?chosen? vessels for eternal life. (Literally living forever on a new earth with a new heaven with each other). This is a terrific project in and of itself. Imagine having a family of millions of people and you?re the father. And you have to prepare all your children and relatives for eternal coexistence with each other in the most ideal method. That is quite an amazing project, if I do say so myself.




No, by your logic of 'free will', it's an pathocentric pretense of having the choice to believe in God or not -- not the choice to do good or bad things.

The 'chosen' vessels will be very very small and insignificant. Not alot of Christians are going to make it to that 'status' if you assume Christians have only one lifetime to achieve it. And if they don't, where do you suppose they go after death?

Project Terra Reform? We should do it democratically, we should vote for "His' decision.. :P


KtP

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #453025 - 11/09/01 02:34 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #453212 - 11/09/01 05:25 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

this is very interesting to say the least.




Holy Trinity - Hacienda Heights. Sermon

...two trees that defined the relationship of God and man - the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The middle is God's place. Man's life revolved around God, with God in the middle. Life, knowledge, and death are God's to give, not man's to reach out and grab. Man received his life and his knowledge as a gift from God in the middle. Man was made from the mud by the hand of God and had God's breath of life breathed into his nostrils. Man was alive with the life of God, and he knew only good, for he was the image of God.

In the middle of the garden was a boundary, a line drawn by the Word of God. The line was the boundary between God and the image of God, between the Creator and His foremost creature. Every tree in the garden was given to man for food to preserve his life, every tree except the tree of knowing good and evil. This was man's freedom. He was free to eat of any tree in the garden but one. Man's freedom is a freedom with a middle and a limit. Only God has absolute freedom. This boundary line between God in the middle and man is the limit to man's freedom. Over this boundary man may not venture or he will die. [ego death -- mh] For man to reach his hand over that boundary line and eat the forbidden food was to reach into the middle, the place of life, and knowledge, and death, [ego death -mh] the place that only God may occupy. It was to usurp God's place, [trespass into the realm of the ground of being's sovereignty] to be a god in place of God, to push God out from the middle of life, to grab for what was not given. It meant death, for only God can be God. "For on the day you eat of it, you will surely die." [ego death, but not bodily death; you die but you do not die from the Amanita, archetypal entheogen - mh]

This is our temptation. We are tempted to trespass the boundary of God's Word [the sovereignty of the ground of being - mh] and exercise our freedom without limits, to push God from the middle and to put ourselves there, to draw life and knowledge from ourselves and our experiences instead from God, to live as if God did not matter and as if we mattered most. To live without God in the middle is death disguised as life. Temptation is a matter of life and death, not good and evil. [but this rebellion, taking to full completion, is the path and the door to our own individual revelation of the sovereignty of the ground of being over the phenomenal ego that was assumed to be sovereign. - mh]

Temptation began with an assault on God's Word. [no, a discovery of God's Word directly, as a prophet not needing the authoritarian hierarchy of the church as institution. - mh] "Did God really say that you must not eat from any tree in the garden?" Perhaps Adam and Eve had misunderstood or misheard. That didn't sound like God. How could God, who is good and love, impose limits on their freedom? It wasn't fair. Why would God have put a forbidden tree there in the first place? In the very middle of the garden, of all places.

"Did God really say." It is a religious question from a very religious serpent. It is the seed of all speculative theology and religious philosophy. Eve is invited to step back and become a dispassionate critic of God's Word instead of the object of God's passionate address. She is invited to reach behind and beyond God's Word, to speculate about God, to judge God and His Word, to draw conclusions about God apart from His Word, to use her own experience of God against God's Word. And if her experience conflicted with God's Word, then perhaps God's Word is wrong, or she must have misunderstood it. Eve was on her way to "schwaermeri," religious enthusiasm, faith fashioned by religious experience instead of God's Word. [false dichotomy - spoken from authoritarianism. Gnostic direct-experiencers in original Christianity equated religious experiences with God's word. The experience of falling in ego death and rising in rebirth *is* God's word, received directly. - mh]

...Did God really say, "Honor your parents," "Do not murder," "Do not commit adultery," "Do not steal, lie, cheat, slander, covet?" ...Perhaps it doesn't apply to our modern, enlightened situation. Did God really say, "This is my body; this is my blood" or did he mean something else? Did God really say, "The sins you forgive are forgiven?" Did God really say, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved?" Did God really say that he forgives sin unconditionally, that Christ has died and been raised for us, that we need no works in order to receive His mercy?

..."You will not surely die [bodily]. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [you will die in the sense of ego death - mh] The Lie and the Truth lie close at hand. They are wound together tightly. The temptation is to reach into the middle, to cross the boundary between God and man, to be "like God" instead of the "image of God."

To be the "image of God" is to be bound to God's Word and to draw your life from God. To be "like God" is to be bound to your own experience of good and evil and to draw your life from your self.

...the fruit was desirable for gaining wisdom. Wouldn't God want them to be wise? She reached across the boundary into the middle and ate. And she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

Adam and Eve took charge of their lives at that moment. Their eyes were opened. They experienced good and evil independently of God. Taking charge, they lost control. Adam fell and in Adam all mankind fell. Falling is the ultimate loss of control. ... Man cannot be "like God." He loses control. He falls. He dies.


Peace...

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ~`Tursiops truncatus`~]
    #453220 - 11/09/01 05:36 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Just thought I'd drop this in. Have fun :)

http://www.egodeath.com/index.html

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ~`Tursiops truncatus`~]
    #453238 - 11/09/01 06:17 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #453473 - 11/09/01 09:50 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Thought you might find this interesting.

Real Religion is Ultimately Personal
by Rodger Stevens
Behind all creeds the spirit is One.
--Andrew Lang

Recall the difference between who we really are and who we think we are. Who we really are was never born and will never die. Who we think we are is like the actor who is playing the roles of you and me. That actor doesn't come into being just when the curtain rises, and does not cease to be when the curtain comes back down, even though his character does. So it is with us. Who we really are is real, eternal, not limited to or confined by the time schedule of the play, and therefore eternally one with the ultimate reality some call God.
Real religion is personal because its intent is to relate and to contrast that part of us which is temporary (the role, the personality, You #2) with that part of us which is eternal (the actor, You #1). We have been talked out of our innate interconnectedness with Life, with Truth, and religion is what we call the process of rediscovering that link. The true Self (Atman, Brahma, the Father, who you really are) needs nothing to link it to what it already is.
Then again, since it deals primarily with the illusory part of us, religion itself can be said to be ultimately illusory; it will have to be different for each of us, because each of us has lost sight of the Self in a different way. The masters all discovered this, but they also realized that their followers didn't yet get the message, so they made suggestions in order to bring those followers back to their reality. Their advice to their disciples was not of the one size fits all variety, but was individually tailored to the needs and challenges of each disciple. Jesus' teaching was not given to an editorial panel, but to ordinary people who wanted to experience what he was experiencing; each needed different prompts.
All of us are different; what makes sense to me might not make sense to you. Naturally, our paths are different, so the promptings (and that's what they must be . . . not orders, but suggestions) we need as to how to follow that path will likewise be different.
But when they became organized, when the original master has passed from the scene and taken his divine insights with him, the religion that formed in his wake lost the ability to innovate, to treat each of us as a special case. The priests who came after the master didn't have enough soul to fill his sandals, so their only option was a creed, a static set of beliefs which had to be accepted without question, resulting in an intellectual and emotional bullying of the sort to which no master would stoop. The masters said, "Heal!", but the priests said "Heel!. That's dogma.
Accepting things on faith was something I had trouble with as a child. I was brought up a Lutheran; I got over it eventually, but until I did I could never rectify two conflicting tenets that were ground into me at a young and impressionable age. The first was that God was omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent . . . okay, I could accept that. But the second was that I, as a human being, was sinful, and therefore somehow other. In logical discourse, this is called a non sequitur . . . given that the first statement is true, the second doesn't follow.
If you start out with a ball of clay, and you make different things out of that clay--a cup, a figurine, a doorstop--these objects all have different appearances and functions, but they are still all made of that same clay. Similarly, if you begin with God and make a universe out of it (recall that, by definition, there was nothing else to work with) then what can that universe, and everything in it, possibly be composed of?
After I shook the dust of organized religion from my sandals, I learned that the link between big 'ol God and little 'ol me was no more and no less than consciousness. And each of us, at and as the very center of us, have this same feeling of I Am, for the not-so-obvious reason that each one of us is really God (Brahma) pretending to be each one of us. There is only one I Am, there is only one God, one Brahma, one Tao, one beingness. When I find Me #1, and you find You #1, we both see the same world, because we both are the same world. But we have so cleverly and convincingly hidden ourselves from ourselves that we really believe that we are separate entities. That's the hide part of hide-and-seek. Humanity has become hide-bound.


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ~`Tursiops truncatus`~]
    #453746 - 11/10/01 07:03 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #453807 - 11/10/01 09:21 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

You assume too much Enter. :-/

You profess knowledge - or at least awareness - of all these absolutes, yet you would struggle, I would imagine, to explain to me exactly where all this knowledge has eminated from. Do you speak to God then? Or has all your knowledge been extracted from Biblical texts? In either case, I seriously question the methods by which you have attained these "truths" of which you seem so steadfastly certain.

My major qualm with all deistic religions is that the search for the self - for individual purpose and meaning - can only be acheived via the backwards, fallicious method of first discovering God, then all else after it. God becomes the centre of the universe, all else - we humans included - simply become objects - sentient or not - in his realm. It assumes absolute reality before it even begins to even consider the subjective; the self. From the perspective of a bedroom philosopher, I'd be happy to delve more deeply into the virtually irrefutable concept of Cartesian dualism when I get the chance, but for now, all you need to know is that the internal world - the self - must be discovered before we can even consider launching ourselves into the external world.

Christianity operates by a convoluted doctrine of absolutes, and from the point of view of any self-respecting philosopher, the only "answer" (if you want to call it that) with regards to any form of conventional deism is thus:

There may well be a god, but it matters little. The possible existance of any gods should make no difference to the way in which we exist. If there is a god, then that's fine, but whether he created me or not, he has no business meddling in my affairs. The internal world that I continue to uncover, deconstruct then reconstruct, is so much more tangible, so much more meaningful, so much more *real* then any god that's ever been put proposed to me in my short life.

Much less than asking you to prove to me why you think god exists, I want you to tell me why it should matter.

It all comes down to the realisation that God could be, but I am: so which being holds the greatest power?

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Renegade]
    #453829 - 11/10/01 10:04 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #454370 - 11/10/01 07:51 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

I'll be brief:

"I am someone who meditates daily with most of his day and night. I am someone who prays daily. I am someone who reads the Word of God or at least meditates on specific Scriptures in the Word. In addition, I talk to as many people as I can about each other?s beliefs and meditate on each others words, whether Christian, Muslim, Atheist, etc. At a minimum, this is far superior to any other method I have discovered to obtain knowledge, awareness, and the impartation of concrete truths."

I'll assume for a second that you have been imparted some tangible information through meditation, but I'll ask again: how do you know that these messages were born of the external world, the world of god? If you could understand why it is you needed to believe in god, then you'd have far more answers than you do with your belief in God right now.

"If something exists, no matter what it is, it does matter. If oxygen exists, it matters. If food exists, it matters. How much more if God exists? Now, if He did not exist, that would also matter. I think this was a poorly thought out question IMO. "

You miss my point, and demonstrate just how important the belief in God is to you. I could become enlightened tomorrow, and be shown that God really does exist, but I fail to see how it should change the way I live my life. Seeing as God has tended not to interfere in human business for the past 2000 years, whether he's sitting up there judging me or not is fairly irrelevant to the pursuit of my Earthly goals. So again, given that there are literally thousands of proposed Gods - each one of them put-forward with the concrete certainty of which you speak - and that no-one has yet discovered them, why should I place any importance, in the course of my day to day life, on the discovery of god?

"Since you decided to be so crass in your manner of speech, you are forcing me to be obtuse. Who are you to make yourself seem so important? Who are you at all? You are dependent on food, air, shelter, sleep, etc. That?s what you come down to. You are one ant out of billions. God is holy[/]. There is no person like Him. He should not be compared to you. I?d like to see you create all the galaxies, the stars, the seas of the earth, all living things, and make them transcend from generation to generation. It is a foolish statement for someone to make themself out to be God or even compare themself to God."

How exactly was I being crass? I think here you reveal just how emotionally attached you are to the notion of God, and that is why you are so quick to block-out your mind to any oher possibilities. Have you asked yourself why you became a Christian in the first place? Was it because you asked youself all the hard questions and came up with the indisputable conclusion that the Christian god must be real? Or did you accept your God purely out of convenience - social, moral and geographical - and only ask the hard questions later?

You should be choosing your beliefs based on these questions, you shouldn't be choosing the questions based on your beliefs. If you preclude your belief in anything, then no amount of questioning will lead you to any other conclusion - regardless of the relative merits of either perspective.

Besides, I think you missed the point of my post. I was simply saying that the power I posess in the certainty of the self supercedes all other realisations, including that of the possible existence of god. I'm not saying that I could create galaxies or anything as complex as the human being, but I'd seriously question whether your concept of God is capable of it either. And further more, I may well be his creation, but that doesn't mean his existence should matter to me - in the same way that my existence - or your existence (you are one of billions, no?) - should matter to him.

You cripple humanity with your words so that you may emancipate God: and this is what is wrong with Christianity. As Neitzsche said: "it weakens the man so that it may heal him." Your perspective is antithetical to existence itself. If you genuinely believe that the existence of any being - omnipotent or not - is more important than your own, then I pity you.

Edited by Renegade (11/10/01 07:53 PM)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Renegade]
    #454433 - 11/10/01 08:55 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #454696 - 11/11/01 04:00 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Scientificaly speaking if I were to look at myself at a sub atomic level there would be no difference between me and a tree or me and a drop of water or me and electricity etc... So how can this keyboard I'm typing on not be a part of "me".

If everything that makes up this universe is made of the same stuff then what is "God" made of? Was "God" not created too?... Personally, I don't have the faintest clue.

I like this though...

"A human being is part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty".
- Albert Einstein


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Re: How will it all end? [Re: ~`Tursiops truncatus`~]
    #454752 - 11/11/01 07:42 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #454993 - 11/11/01 02:20 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting points, I'll give it to you, you seem to have alot more knowledge about things then me. But is this keyboard I'm typing on not made of energy? Is energy not alive?

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Revelation]
    #455605 - 11/12/01 12:27 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

evolution means extinction.
When we eventually trash the entire planet there will be all these empty niches and HUGE adaptive radiation and something else will live here.
It's not a matter of if it's a metter of when.


--------------------
"I get up, I walk, I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."

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Re: How will it all end? [Re: World Spirit]
    #455804 - 11/12/01 08:50 AM (22 years, 8 months ago)

This is why we call it faith, Renegade. Because there is a great sense of ?what-ifs? at all times. Each of us discerns and decides what they perceive to be true. I have gone my way. You have gone yours. Either way, each of us has a system of faith. I believe what I believe. Likewise, you believe what you believe. My beliefs include ?seeing the unseen.? A hard thing for most to accept, let alone believe for a long period of time.

No, I don't think that you can really "decide" what is true and what isn't. I have not decided what my "truths" are, I have simply accepted what is already true. Now, again, I have neither the time nor the inclination to delve into epistemology, but the quest for truth is not a moral one: different truths do not posess equal merit simply because they have been selected from the same grounds of evidence or experience. The fact that you have "decided" to believe in a god highlights the different approaches we are taking in our somewhat naive search for truth. I did not choose what I now consider to be true for I have no say in what "truth" is at all. What is true simply is: whether you wish to acknowledge it or not is another matter.

Faith does not make you see the unseen: it makes you see what isn't there. I may have faith in the existence of unicorns - a faith that you could not deter with either logic or empiricism - but it does not mean that unicorns exist. Simply because I have chosen to believe in the existence of unicorns, it does not necessarily make this choice as meritorious as the alternative. My opinion may well contain a dote of truth, but would still be a retroactive logic: having faith in the outcome before devising the rhetoric.

Anyway, like I said, I have no problems with you (or anyone else) believing in a god, so long as you understand why I feel slightly offended that you should go so far as to call it a "truth" when your system of belief and faith is antithetical to that very word.

My life, even with nothing else, is satisfied in the knowledge that I have somehow managed to touch the heart of God in my short lifetime.

I can only suggest that this is a somewhat pesimistic outlook. You have the concept of God taken away from you, then, and you have little left. Say I came up with incontravertible truth of god's non-existence: where would you be then? True happinness should orginate from within, not from the material world. Sure, the material world may bring great satisfaction to all of us - I'm not denying that - but the man with true happiness can have the entire external world taken from him and remain content.

Of course, you may argue that God isn't part of the external world, implying, by the dichotemy incinuated in Cartesian dualism, that he is found within the internal world. Why not just minimalise pluralities then, eliminate the middle man and find happiness within yourself? God is a means to happiness not the end in itself. God may exist: I assume he doesn't but I cannot rule out the possibility thathe does. If this is so then I fail to see what he could offer to humanity that isn't already inherent within each and every one of us: our own private, subjective "spirituality" (refering not to a transcendant spirituality - which the word implies in its everyday usage - but simply to the meaning and purpose that originates within ourselves. I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe what I'm talking about).

Now obviously my views are not going to shake you from what is so deeply ingrained into your person already, which is why I would like you to search within yourself - deeply and genuinely - why it is you believe in god. Is it because your parents made you and you never shrugged the habit? Or because you are enlightened in some way that the rest of us are not? I'm not asking you to justify your views to me, because how you choose to live your life doesn't matter a particularly great deal to me personally, but I still think you owe it to yourself to search the internal world for answers to these questions. Regardless of which path the answers to these questions lead you down, whatever you beliefs at the end can only be grounded in a far higher degree of certainty than your unquestioned beliefs right now.

Doubt is the true path to knowledge, and I sincerely doubt (excuse the pun) that any of you could argue otherwise (for arguing with that point implies doubt in the first place). :)

All I can respond to this is a general statement so I don?t get accused of judging anyone?I will not pity any person when they see me where they could have been.

You believe I'm going to hell then? Well, if that's the price I pay for searching truth then so be it. If god descriminates against people for posessing free thought - which he would have instilled us with in the first place - and he is the best thing wating for me in heaven, then thanks very much, I think I'd rather be in hell. :)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Renegade]
    #456159 - 11/12/01 03:47 PM (22 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineGeekhorse
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Registered: 06/15/07
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #8888420 - 09/06/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Havoc,
<br>
<br>I hate it when people claim that differing opinions are ignorant.  Our extinction is irrelvant to the universe.  If we get wiped out, we'll be about as missed as the dinosaurs in the long run, and life will continue without the big, bad evil man. 
<br>
<br>And as for the rest of you, looking to go to outer space, we can't even agree on what the problems are on this planet.  How is space travel going to positively effect human nature?




It gives us more time to do what were meant to do. Evolve, advance, cure sickness, serve your god, whatever. It's that simple.


--------------------
mmm coming soon...

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OfflinePoofter
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #8889017 - 09/06/08 11:37 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Havoc said:
Humanity is faced with the biggest responsibility in this world. It's either take care of this planet or destroy it. I find myself wondering which one will it be? Each one of us possesses a human brain with a mind of infinite possibilities. No other creature on this planet is capable of what we are capable of. But, our capabilities go both ways, both creation and destruction. Humanity needs to responsible for this gift that has been given to us. If humans can create such complex things and develope all this technology using only 10% of our brain I can't even begin to imagine what the other 90% holds for us. Either we take responsibility for this great gift that has been given to us and elevate our minds or this planet and everything in it is doomed. The possibilities are endless. Spread wisdom not ignorance and elevate your mind. The rest has yet to be written, we will shape our own future. Will we have paradise or will we continue to destroy ourselves and the planet?




DISCLAIMER::
I have NOT read all replies, and I will most likely fail to do so, please do not chastise[sp?] me for my response, if it has already been said.  Thank you, and good day.


As far as fixing this planet, I think we have already come too far to fix it.  I think the next step in evolution, enlightenment, whatever you want to call it, is for our 'concious-being' to go to whatever we believe is paradise.  For those who are into religion it could be heaven, reincarnation, WTFever.  I do not believe there will ever be paradise on this earth, until she rids herself of her biggest parasite: humans.

and I hope that made sense...

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Offlineigwna
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Re: How will it all end? [Re: Havoc]
    #8889533 - 09/07/08 02:17 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Not with a bang, but with a whimper.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: How will it all end? [Re: igwna]
    #8889539 - 09/07/08 02:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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