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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy
    #4248263 - 06/02/05 03:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Flocking, swarming, schooling, herding, etc; have ALL been used as "evidence" of a group mind or mind-to-mind connections in animals.

This has been thoroughly debunked through software emulating similar behavior. All of these behaviours rely soley on physical cues based on a few rules.

This is no different than driving in heavy traffic. There is no group mind at work, no psychic powers; merely making fairly simple determinations about the cars around you.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Swami]
    #4248417 - 06/02/05 04:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

fluids, gasses, matter, have all be used to explain light, so after it all turning out to be wrong, it is clear that light does not exist and is only an illusion.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Swami]
    #4248433 - 06/02/05 04:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What is happening when the group starts running off a cliff and I decide to go the other way?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248440 - 06/02/05 04:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You must do better than that! Really.

Light still exists and flocking still exists. Falsely describing something does not change it. We are not that powerful.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Swami]
    #4248461 - 06/02/05 04:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Falsely describing something does not change it" you made my point..

falsely trying to prove telepathy does not make it non-existant

An inocent mad with a man lawyer is not guilty even though he was put to jail


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/02/05 04:26 PM)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4249137 - 06/02/05 06:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

U are the anti-swarmi!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Ego Death]
    #4249178 - 06/02/05 07:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Not really, most of the time my process of thinking is similar to his process of thinking, but since he dominates a lot of threads, I have to take the oposite side and try to defend it. I always like to take the weaker side.

And as for pure daydreaming, well even then I use similar thought processes as Swami, it's just that in his mind there is a spark that pushes his to one side, and in my mind there is a spark that pushes me a lot of the time to the oposite side.

But to be anti something, you have to be as good as the oposite thing, so I'm not anti swami because I am very sloppy and unresponsible regarding my arguments


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4254770 - 06/04/05 03:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think group mind implies telepathy.

what defines the limits of a mind? if you don't believe there's a soul- what's the limit? saying that mind must be limited within one skull is arbitrary. mind has a unique character; that character is hardly 'within a skull'

i think in words all the time. i use words to communicate with others. i don't see a difference in terms of a definition of mind. hence, group mind.

group mind does not have a pinpoint or ego. it's more like a psychotic or tripping consciousness than a normal consciousness. but it's still a consciousness.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4254953 - 06/04/05 04:21 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I heard somewhere that an ant colony will forage non stop with the common goal of feeding the queen, but as soon as the queen dies, almost telepathically the entire colony goes into chaos.

Thoughts?

(it could have been wasps, but same idea)


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: nubious]
    #4255107 - 06/04/05 06:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

and Emile Durkheim probably masturbated in self inflicted solitary confinment whilst making up his theories which seem to be the basis of all modern day sociology regarding the group consciousness.....


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: nubious]
    #4255125 - 06/04/05 06:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

but as soon as the queen dies, almost telepathically the entire colony goes into chaos.

This is the classic I harp on day in and day out: "If one doesn't understand the mechanism, then invoke mysticism."  :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: nubious]
    #4255133 - 06/04/05 07:19 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

but as soon as the queen dies, almost telepathically the entire colony goes into chaos

Chemical Signalling != Telepathic Signalling


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Diploid]
    #4255272 - 06/04/05 10:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

There is a Quantum Experiment that is baffled by a similar problem. Some experiment had this tunnel which was 6 miles long, and at the end of each side, it forked off into one long arm, and one short arm. So basically the tunnel looked like >------------<, with one branch slightly longer than the other. I cant remember the process, but somehow two photons are shot from the center of the tunnel and travel in opposite directions. 100% of the time they both make the same "choice" of which arm to go in. The 6 miles of tunnel was purposly used because it was just long enough to negate the possibility of speed of light "communication" between the two particles. They have yet to be able to explain how this occurs, and have even foudn that if they closed the short arm of one side and forced the photon to go into the long arm, the photon at the other end would follow suit every single time.

I dont know if this helps or hurts your argument, just wanted to throw it out there and see what people do with it....


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4255305 - 06/04/05 10:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

There is a Quantum Experiment

The phenomenon is called Quantum Entanglement. Entanglement occurs when the quantum states (as described by a state vector or the wave function) of two particles are described with respect to each other even though they are far apart.

What you find in such a set of particles is a correlation of the parameters that describe each of the two. The correlation holds, apparently instantly, despite the distance between the two particles.

Although entanglement appears to transmit information faster than light, it does not violate causality and cannot be used to communicate. Entanglement only lets each of two observers (the two sensors at the ends of the tunnel) in different locations know what the other must see. You cannot communicate this way; imparting information to one of the entangled particls destroys the entanglement.

Tachyons, particles that cannot travel slower than light, have been postulated, but tachyons have never been observed. If they exist and can interact with normal mater, yes, they would violate causality and invalidate much of modern physics. If they exist and cannot interact with normal matter, then they might as well not exist. Tachyons also have difficult to comprehend properties, like imaginary mass (square root of -1).

That said, entanglement is a very weird and interesting thing. It is the basis of Quantum Computers which can solve in a few seconds some classes of problems (like factoring) that would take trillions of years on a conventional computer.

Entanglement holds promise in the area of Quantum Cryptography where it can detect whether or not someone has observed a message before you did, while it was in transit.

Another weird potential application is Quantum Teleportation which relies on the fact all particles of a given type are totally indistinguishable from each other. Two protons in the same Quantum State are absolutely identical. It's not like two Legos of the same type; if you use a microscope, you will see that two Legos of the same type are actually quite different at the microscopic level; but two protons in the same Quantum State cannot be distinguished from each other. By setting the Quantum State of a distant proton (or the constituent particles of an object) the same as a nearby one, you have effectively teleported the proton (or object).

Weird science, eh?  :crazy2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/04/05 12:37 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Flocking, Group Mind and Telepathy [Re: Diploid]
    #4255344 - 06/04/05 11:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: (not to derail the thread... but good job diploid, Im glad others on this forum have read a book or two about QM)


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