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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248559 - 06/02/05 02:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Diploid, at least I am attempting to answer your questions. You made no attempt to answer these. If you do, you make breakthrough, and see as others do what can not be put within a container.

When I envision a place I have been too in the past, with what source of light and eye am I seeing it with? Do I have a light bulb or eye ball in the memory section of the brain for this to take place diploid? And how do the tissues and chemicals and electrical pulses create that image of a past view? Are there paint brushes and canvas's in the memory section of my brain as well.

How does all of that fit in there?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248570 - 06/02/05 02:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

When faced with a concept that cannot possibly be "nailed down" to hard facts and hard scientific evidence, I decide to investigate possibilities. After I have investigated all the possibilities I can dream up or seek out, I choose the one that I call my "best guess."

My best guess is that our bodies (brains included) are complex vehicles for our souls. The function of the vehicle certainly affects the driver's ability to navigate their life. When we leave our "vehicles," they cease driving.

As to the location of the soul...I am intrigued by what I am learning about mitochondria. It is still far too early in my studies to even attempt a "best guess," but I like the possibilities!

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4248612 - 06/02/05 02:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The Experience of 'The Witness,' that Experience of a 'Transcendental Ego' that Dick Alpert AKA Ram Dass wrote of in BE HERE NOW to name a fairly recent rendering of The classic Experience of Soul, is what I was referring to.

Alpert's Witness was somehow unable to notice when he had a stroke, that he was immobile on the floor for 6 hours.

The Witness can be as easily explained by brain function as it can be by some mystical, separate indefinable "something".

Fledgling spiritual seekers need to be encouraged, not discouraged.
R-I-G-H-T! So should I encourage telekinesis, 2012, crop circles, UFOs, physical immortality, etc. ?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4248836 - 06/02/05 03:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Alpert's stroke, or any psychophysical malady should theoretically have no influence on the Consciousness which he called The Witness. It is impassive ["indifferent" : Webster]. It is THE Consciousness that one's identity must become, and The Witness 'witnesses' the whole drama (i.e., of the stroke) "...with Unbearable Compassion," because Compassion is the identity of The Witness. It remains, if it is Eternal. We and our psychophysical drama perish. Why then 'blame' The Witness, or even say that it was "unable to notice?" Do you not 'get' this description of the Transcendental Ego or do you merely insist that it is a brain-created state?

Telekinesis (a purportedly PSI Function), 2012, crop circles, UFO's, physical immortality should ALL be discouraged. I do not consider any of them to fall into the category of 'spiritual.' Telekinesis is parapsychological, physical immortality is mythological; 2012 is supposed to be astrological, crop circles can be man-made, but like the helicopter-ploy in 'Close Encounters,' perhaps the man-made are cover-ups for the UFO's - however, neither real or imagined, constitute 'spiritual.' Spiritus, Pneuma, Ruach, - Latin, Greek and Hebrew words which are archaic and unfortunately of the same meaning as 'wind,' are best left behind and replaced with the word Consciousness (which can be the umbrella-term under which can range Unconsciousness, Subconsciousness, Consciousness and Superconsciousness, and which can encompass human experiences from the instinctual to the insightful - root chakra to crown chakra - whatever.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4248842 - 06/02/05 03:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

swami, that would be because the witness only functions through the brain. of course you can say conciousness is only created by the brain but i have 2 responses. first of all the brain is not something seperate that exists on it's own, it's really the brains interaction with its evironment (the whole universe) that creates conciousness so it can be said that the universe itself is conciouss (if only through brains) and secondly, there is a lot of evidence that conciousness is a property of matter/energy and not something that magically appears when matter is arranged in a certain way. your arguments are indicative of someone who doesn't understand the spiritual theories being presented rather than an actual rebuttle. we already know about the examples you use and they pose no contradiction to what we believe. in fact we would expect things to be that way.

Edited by Deviate (06/02/05 03:45 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4248971 - 06/02/05 04:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Telekinesis (a purportedly PSI Function), 2012, crop circles, UFO's, physical immortality should ALL be discouraged. I do not consider any of them to fall into the category of 'spiritual.'

This is exactly the reply I expected.

So should I only encourage that which you deem encourageable and discourage that which you deem discourageable?

Markos, I put the flame to every idea to see what goes up in smoke and that which remains. I challenge everything. Nothing is off-limits to scrutiny in my world.

Sorry you took offense to my earlier post. I think you took it in a way I did not intend.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4249012 - 06/02/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)


Markos, I put the flame to every idea to see what goes up in smoke and that which remains. I challenge everything. Nothing is off-limits to scrutiny in my world.
____________________________________________________________________

That's a bold statement. Is this an aspiration or a totality? Being human and all I mean. :grin:

Anyway I admire your statement. I can respect it. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4249023 - 06/02/05 04:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

my god, for a forum visited by "enlightened" people, I've never seen a bigger congregation of people who are more sure about their beliefs

UFO's should be discouraged, regardless of wheather they are real or not

This redefines the truth itself. Truth is then, that which we decide to be and all evidence that might be founrd one days should be selected acoarding to the decided truth.

You shroomers just can't for a second step outside of your beliefs and believe in the oposite, not for a second. All of you, UFO-ers, antiUFO-ers, whatever.

So if you decide that UFO's exist, any evidence that might suggest it is an illusion is not valid and should be canceled, or vice versa, If you believe in UFO's as being illusions, any future evidence of the contrary is to be dismissed. What kind of logic is that?

I'm really tired of this place


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/02/05 04:13 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Icelander]
    #4249036 - 06/02/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hence my new nick-name: "The Burning Man".  :tongue2:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4249045 - 06/02/05 04:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No wait, I had that name 30 years ago when I got my first (and last!) case of gonorrhea.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4249172 - 06/02/05 05:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

TMI!!

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4249246 - 06/02/05 05:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

:lol: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4249441 - 06/02/05 06:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I agree that the brain is mostly responsible for the outward appearance of "personality"...however this fact does not mean a "soul" cannot exist. It could be that the "soul" has no effect whatsoever on the outward appearance of personality.

Trying to prove a negative is always, always, tricky :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: trendal]
    #4249707 - 06/02/05 07:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Not a response?? Even after all that BS. Thanks for including me y'all. Soul... Silly. Buddy, eat 10.5g of potent fruit. That'll disconnect ya from your conditioning. Don't panic. Let it empty out onto the table. Once you see yourself for the first time... There you are. Soul, unbiased, disconnected from who you thought you were. A duality really. "As above so below"

Psyilly

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: psyillyazul]
    #4249723 - 06/02/05 07:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Buddy, eat 10.5g of potent fruit.

Yeah...I do all my neuroscience while tripping  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: trendal]
    #4249759 - 06/02/05 07:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

neuroscience?? I thought we were talking altered states, which have always been accessed with mushrooms. You think they just popped up in the sixties??

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4249777 - 06/02/05 07:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't expect you to encourage anything that you're not behind yourself. Nothing is outside of scrutiny in my world either, but there are some people - and YOU know which posts - that it would be beneficial to cease and desist from a bloodbath.

Apology heartily accepted.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4249795 - 06/02/05 07:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

apology? bloodbath? I don't follow. If someone wants to experience their own soul there is a way. Didn't say it would be fun or pretty. Especially for this guy, especially. Judgment?? I am behind that dose. I would like to meet up and prove it to you. I speak from experience. Your experience??

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4249836 - 06/02/05 07:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Unidentified Flying Objects belong to the empirical world, not the spiritual world, unless you take Jung's idea that they are projections of archetypal images, i.e., mandalas, in which case UFO's would belong to the psychical world.

I don't know how you processed my response to Swami, but the only spiritual aspect of UFO's that I find pertinent is their veracity, the Truth of their psychophysical existence in our space-time locus, not mere psychical projections. In this sense, Truth = Reality, but UFO's do not represent Ultimate Truth, so like everything else in the empirical world, they are not equivalent to Ultimate Reality, which is a philosophical way of saying 'GOD.'

I have affirmed no belief, just categories of existence: physical, psychical, spiritual.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisiblepsyillyazul
verbal doubleedged sword BFTD

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 412
Loc: zion
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4249851 - 06/02/05 07:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

no responses. ever.

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