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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248170 - 06/02/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

none of diploids threads ever stay on topic.... you start out arguing about frogs and end up arguing about glaucoma.

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Offlineajna
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4248195 - 06/02/05 01:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"OK, let me take through how I get that conclusion with some questions:

Do you think the interpretation of metaphor occurs in the brain or in the soul?"

BRAIN. the very act of interpretation happens in the brain. you do realise the soul doesn't 'think', don't you?


--------------------


what i'm listening to: http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/ajnachakra/

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4248217 - 06/02/05 01:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I have no faith in anything. Don't you see?




You stated that everytime you go there, you are convinced you are just kidding yourself. A state of being convinced equates into a state of absolute faith. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248226 - 06/02/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with existence of spirit/soul

You don't see a relationship between the soul concept and God?  :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248231 - 06/02/05 01:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i dont make any link between God and a soul. not in the sense that one is indicitive of the other.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4248238 - 06/02/05 01:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You stated that everytime you go there, you are convinced you are just kidding yourself. A state of being convinced equates into a state of absolute faith.

Eh, poor choice of words. Perhaps I should have said that every time I go there, I see subjectivity rather than objectivity, and I reject subjectivity on the basis that it can't be distinguished from me kidding myself.  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248246 - 06/02/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with existence of spirit/soul

You don't see a relationship between the soul concept and God?  :confused:




I was refering to your original post about brain, memory, personality etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248248 - 06/02/05 01:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Poor choice of words. Perhaps I should have said that every time I go there, I see subjectivity rather than objectivity, and I reject subjectivity on the basis that it can't be distinguished from me kidding myself.  :tongue:




Explain for us how you are ever capable of seeing "objectively". :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248254 - 06/02/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I was refering to your original post about brain, memory, personality etc.

The main thrust of the original post was a critique of the concept of a soul. Did you not catch the title of this thread?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248258 - 06/02/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

it wasnt really a title that indicated critique, it said "the evidence against a soul"

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248262 - 06/02/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

oh dear, yea, I know that you ARE trying to disprove the concept of a soul, but what I failed to se is how is your analise of human brain a good argument for it


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Swami]
    #4248265 - 06/02/05 01:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The existence of a soul was posited at around the same time as many other mystical beliefs - ALL of those that could be directly examined turned out to be WRONG, unless one still believes that thunder is God's anger and not colliding super-heated air molecules. This is ignorance.

Let me repeat as this is important: ALL EARLY BELIEFS and EXPLANATIONS concerning the nature of the world that could be empirically challenged WERE IN ERROR; yet some hold the ancients in high-regard as if they were superior beings.

The beliefs that could not be not be directly examined still persist, but with no more basis than the early explanation of thunder.

Take umbrage if you so choose, but anger is not a salient point nor a counter-argument.




The cultures that developed those myths of a zeus and other etiological mysteries didn't use their beliefs as a reference to truth, in fact they didn't even question them. The birthplace of reason was remarkable without any questioning of the gods that everyone worshipped, the myths were simply ways of understanding, not solving. I would wager someone could apply this same method to their own god in this era.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4248275 - 06/02/05 01:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Explain for us how you are ever capable of seeing "objectively".

You're picking nits.

At the bottom of it all, nothing outside your head can be known with absolute objectivity. Some persuasive philosophical arguments say that you can't even objectively know what's in your head either.

Be that as it may, there are reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from our experience of the world and my posts represent mine. That absolute objectivity is impossible doesn't invalidate them.

NOW we're getting off topic, but it's my thread, so there!  :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248283 - 06/02/05 01:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

but what I failed to se is how is your analise of human brain a good argument for it

I'm arguing that the entire net sum of a human personality is contained in the physical brain, not in the metaphysical soul.

Please read the entire thread, then get back to me. [sigh]


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248297 - 06/02/05 01:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The soul has nothing to do with thinking, personality, emotion, or rationality. Thus your attempt here is irrelevant. That's what OWS is talking about.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248306 - 06/02/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Where did you get that conclusion from?

OK, let me take through how I get that conclusion with some questions:

Do you think the interpretation of metaphor occurs in the brain or in the soul?




We have a huge communication gap going on here in fundamental understanding. if you can be patient and if I can, we may close the gap a bit.

To start, that question tells me you think the souls mind functions like the brain. If I could explain to you in a way you would understand how the soul mind functions then you would understand why your question makes no sense to me. It can't be answered as in one or the other.

It reads to me like asking you, does your car run on gas fuel or does your rocket run on rocket fuel? They are two different vehicles with two different modes of functioning but they can both take you places in their own way.

I am working to understand where you are coming from so I can walk you into another understanding. I can't do it from where I am at. I can't take you to see the Great Wall if I am standing in China and you are in Dallas Texas. I have to either give you directions on how to get to China first or come to dallas and take you there myself.

Your first question can not be answered as in one or the other. Thats how huge this fundamental understanding and communication gap is right now. Any suggestions for closing it?

I can say this now. The soul mind becomes very attached to the body over time and starts beleiving it is it. Its only when you start detaching your sense of self from your body and the physical identifications that you begin to see and experience the difference.

Okay, I went back to your question. The brain is just a bunch of tissue, chemical reactions and electrical pulses. Within that you are looking for the source of conscious interpretation. Diploid, you are confusing the fuck out of me.:lol: The conscious mind is not the brain and I can't talk as if it is and not be in fantasy land.

From a neuro science view, you will not know how consciousness works, you will only know how the brain works.

try some other questions and will see if we can crack through a barrier here.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: moog]
    #4248325 - 06/02/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The soul has nothing to do with thinking, personality, emotion, or rationality.

Yet another definition. I know many mystics who would disagree with you. But whatever; 100 people each with a different definition of Soul doesn't change any of their minds that they are the ones who are correct and everyone else's definition is wrong. This dogma sounds a lot like Catholics, and Muslims, and Jews, and.... They all insist their version is the correct version.

So, tell me, if the soul has nothing to do with the things you outlined above, what does it have to do with and what's its function?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248327 - 06/02/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
but what I failed to se is how is your analise of human brain a good argument for it

I'm arguing that the entire net sum of a human personality is contained in the physical brain, not in the metaphysical soul.

Please read the entire thread, then get back to me. [sigh]




yes, but when it comes to religions and beliefs which accept the concept of soul, reincarnation and all that stuff, personality and memory are passing things and do not make a soul.
when you reincarnate you don't remember anything and you reincarnated into a romantic painter after being a passionate butcher in your last life. And besides, our personality changes in life, our memories fade, yet we are still who we are because we share the same flow of consciousness with all the little subpersons (that we were in different parts of our lives)

Now you are loving and cool about things, the next second you are impatient, nervous, and prefer oranges instead of apples, but it is still you who experiences this change.

Untill science defines consciousness, you can not even begin to try and prove non-existence of a soul (immaterial consciousness)

So far, science can only explain everything that your consciousness experiences (the contents of life) but not the consciousness itself


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/02/05 02:05 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4248334 - 06/02/05 02:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The existence of a soul was posited at around the same time as many other mystical beliefs - ALL of those that could be directly examined turned out to be WRONG, unless one still believes that thunder is God's anger and not colliding super-heated air molecules. This is ignorance.

Let me repeat as this is important: ALL EARLY BELIEFS and EXPLANATIONS concerning the nature of the world that could be empirically challenged WERE IN ERROR; yet some hold the ancients in high-regard as if they were superior beings.

The beliefs that could not be not be directly examined still persist, but with no more basis than the early explanation of thunder.

Take umbrage if you so choose, but anger is not a salient point nor a counter-argu




regardless of when it was originally posited, there have been many different definitions of soul that have been used since. until it is agreed what exactly the soul is i don't see how it can be decided whether or not it exists, which is why i hate the word soul. i certainly don't believe in a soul that can think or hear apart from the brain but i think the word soul could be used to describe conciousness.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Neurological Science And Evidence Of The Non-Existence Of A Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #4248336 - 06/02/05 02:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

to be....

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